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thermador
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Magic Items have "Constant effect" instead of "Cast when used"

B A C K G R O U N D


In Morrowind, when an item is enchanted, there are three options - Cast when used (puts a spell in your spell list when you have the item in your inventory), Cast on strike (for weapons, cast when the weapon strikes a target), and Constant effect (gives a permanent magical effect when the item is equipped on the character).  The "Cast when used" and "Cast on strike" items would have to be recharged after using them a certain number of times, and more valuable base items (a gold ring for example) could hold more charges than cheaper items (a brass ring, for example).

In Oblivion, however, when something is enchanted, your options are simplified - enchanted pieces of clothing or armor are always "Constant effect" while enchanted weapons are always "Cast on strike".  There is NO "Cast when used" functionality. (A good list of the differences between the two games is available here)

UESP's page on enchanting in Morrowind highlights some of the differences between the games, with my comments in italics:

  • Enchanted items slowly recharge allowing you to use them over and over again (Not true in Oblivion).
  • All enchanted items have a casting cost that is based on your Enchant skill, not your skill in the relevant spell school (Not true in Oblivion, as there is no Enchant skill - the casting cost is fixed for each item).
  • A high Enchant skill will allow you to use enchanted items more times before their charge is exhausted (Not true in Oblivion, as there is no Enchant skill - the number of times you can use an enchanted item is determined by the power source (strength of soul gem or sigil stone)).
  • For example, your Mysticism skill may be too low to predictably cast an Almsivi Intervention spell when you need one, but if you get an enchanted item with the spell, you can cast it without any skill in Mysticism whatsoever (Not applicable in Oblivion, as items are only Constant Effect or Cast On Strike)
  • Enchanted items also never fail, and have a zero casting time, unlike spells. (In Oblivion, all spells and enchantments never fail and have zero casting time)
  • Although you are limited to wearing only one Amulet, two Rings, etc. at a time, the game allows you to use any magical item that you have in your inventory, automatically equipping it for you when you use it.  (In Oblivion, you can only access the enchantments of items equipped on your character)
  • You can create Constant Effect items, so that merely equipping them gives you the effect, without needing to cast anything. (This is still true in Oblivion, although only armor and clothing can have a constant effect.)

 


T H E - P R O B L E M


 

So, when the original Morrowind game was converted, something had to be done with all those "Cast when used" items, since Oblivion does not support that form of enchantment.  In general, anything on a weapon was converted to "Cast on strike" and anything on a piece of armor or clothing was converted to "Constant effect" - this is what created the problem that we are facing - many items have become utterly game-breaking (often, "god items")

For example, the Thief Ring, which can be found at the beginning of the game in a cave near Seyda Neen, should be worth 14 gold and give you a SPELL that does this:

  • Fortify Agility 5 pts for 30 secs on Self
  • Fortify Speed 5 pts for 30 secs on Self
  • Fortify Personality 5 pts for 30 secs on Self

Instead, the Thief Ring is worth about 1400 gold, and gives you a CONSTANT EFFECT of:

  • Fortify Agility 5 pts on Self
  • Fortify Speed 5 pts on Self
  • Fortify Personality 5 pts on Self

Quite a nice item to find at the very beginning of the game!  And this is supposed to be a ring worth 14 gold!

 


P O S S I B L E - S O L U T I O N S


There are two possible solutions to this problem:

  • Write and assign a script to each item that does the same thing as "Cast when used" did in Morrowind - as long as the item is in your inventory, the script adds the appropriate spell to your spell list.  This has been done, I believe, with Fargoth's Ring (I am not 100% on this)
  • Leave all the items "Constant effect" but adjust their attributes so that they're not game-breaking - instead of healing 20pts every second, it heals 1pt every second.  This has been done with Eleidon's Ward, among others.

Obviously, Option 1 would be the most true to the original intent of morrowind, but perhaps a little more difficult to implement - although once a working script is written, it should be easy to re-create it for each item (although time consuming to attach the appropriate script to each item).

Option 2, on the other hand, may be easier, but each item still has to be edited one by one, and it would involve a lot of subjective decisions.

 


L I S T - O F - I T E M S


I have attached a spreadsheet to this post with all of the "Constant Effect" items in Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon.  This can be opened in Microsoft Excel or in LibreOffice (free alternative).  This information was all sourced from UESP.

Hopefully this will help someone figure this out in the future.  Unfortunately, writing a script for each item (option 1 above) is beyond my scripting ability.

I am also going to move all posts about constant effect items to this thread, since there was some good discussion about solutions in the Ring of Khajiit thread.

AttachmentSize
MW Cast When Used Items.xls155 KB
Edited by: morroblivion-admin on 01/27/2014 - 18:09
madmanmostafa
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#1

Just wanted to throw it out there, items like the Mother's ring in Morroblivion gives you Restore 15 health points on self constant effect.  Traditionally it's a cast when used item to restore health 10-20 points for 1 second on self.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mother%27s_Ring#Mother.27s_Ring

 

Erchino
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#2

Hi,

Recently I completed Mephala's Quest: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mephala%27s_Quest.

For doing so, I received the Ring of Khajiiti, and according to what it says, it is supposed to give me invisibility and fortify my speed. I do get the fortify speed bonus but cannot turn invisible. I checked my spells in case they gave it to me as a spell but no dice. Any suggestions?

Thank you.

Darth South
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#4

First of all, Oblivion doesn't have a 'Cast when Used' thing. This is why they are all constant effects. Ring of Khajiti in Oblivion had a constant effect of Chameleon. Similar I mean. For ex, Bound weapons has scripts on them. That script transforms them into Daedric weapons and let them stay like that till their time is over. And you can't turn them to daedric till 24 four hours.

So it probably is going to stay that way.

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#5

Here is a temp fix. And it should be compatible with your saved game Erchino.

http://www.mediafire.com/?joe9m52qm987pxq

 

When you equip the ring, it gives you a greater power that makes you invisible for 30 secs, and boost speed by 15 for 30 secs.

 

One quick question. Does Morrowind 'cast when used' allow for you to use the item when it's not equipped??

If so i would need to change a few words, but I think it is only when the item is equipped so I think were fine.

 

Next is to see if we can script charges into rings.

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#9

also keep note:

i did change the update, first i had it as a spell. next as a greater power (for balance with out the charges figured out)

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#11

I am trying to get a template for all cast when use items. Something we can copy and paste the rest together. And Yes you can change it to a spell, where it is infinite per day, and change it to cast when equip. This was trying to bring back morrowinds cast when use.

I know there is a way to do custom .ini's with info stored in them. If we can make a custom .ini that is placed data\ini\morroblivioncastwhenuse.ini, that has the text

000sotsringofkhajitichargesmax == 265

000sotsringofkhajitichargescurrent == 265

 

We could then reference this with a script and take away the charges when the spell is used. And if you don't have enough charges, it returns the message "Not enough charges"

This doesn't fix the recharging part. But I am sure if we can get this working we can figure out a work around for refilling charges.

 

Or, if we could find the script language that controls weapon charges uses and refills. With Tesedit4 we can actually add charges to armor and apparel. And just reference the charge scripts in the spells and the various recharging methods.

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#12

Drawing inspiration from FWE mod from Fallout 3, I think recharging using the ini method might work out the best...

We can have a custom misc item, that pulls up a menu listing all magical armor and apparel that you have and that are cast when use items. You click on your item and you are given recharging methods list. You select what soulgems you what and it puts up the charges. All refrencing the custom ini

henshu
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#3

I'm not sure why you have seperate variables for the items charge. Magical items already have charge, which can be checked and altered using GetCurrentCharge and SetCurrentCharge. 

Edit:Because most magical equipment doesn't actually work that way, only weapons do. 
Oh, right.  sorry. But most magical items do still have charge attributes, they just aren't visible to the player. Have you tried to see if these work? 

  

 

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#4

Henshu,

Yes I have. I hacked the Ring of Khajit to add charges, then I tried to deduct them via scripts... I couldn't do it. Not to say it can't be done. I just didn't figure it out. This would be the prefered way because maybe Oblivion will read that the charges are used and allow you to recharge them like normal. If we don't do that, we have to create an appareal item that when equipped pulls up a custom menu that adds charges and deletes the select soul gem. Which is possible but using scripts and the regular recharging sytem would be better.

On second thought I tried using different variables. I didn't use those two you put up (I tend to have a hard time finding functions, commands and variables) When I did this I used GetEnchantmentCharge, GetEnchantmentCost, SetEnchantmentCharge. I didn't use GetCurrentCharge, SetCurrentCost

Right now I just redid my OS, so I have nothing installed to test those two functions you listed,

(if you want to try)

To hack charges into magical items you go the the CS, add a blank enchantment. Go to TES4EDIT go the the item and edit in charges. You need to have an enchantment on the item before TES4EDIT will allow you to add charges.

 

thermador
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#5

So this is how Yoshimo did the "Engraved Ring of Healing" for the "Fargoth's Ring" quest - the ring you find in the barrel at the beginning of the game.  I assume that first he hacked it to add enchantments, and then attached this script to it (you can view it yourself in the construction set of course - find it under "Items" -> "Clothing" -> "Ring" -> "0AAMWEngravedRingofHealing").

SCN 0AAMWQ1EngravedRingOfHealingEffectScript

; In Morrowind the rings had charges like staffs.  This particular ring could just barely heal you a bit.
; It is supposed to be an annoying, hard-to-use ring just like in Morrowind.
; We can't have it be a constant effect ring making you like an Oblivion troll!
; Then it would be a really useful ring.  This ring is also part of a mini-quest.

Short Discharged
Short Casting

Begin OnEquip Player
    If Player.GetAV Health < 75 && Discharged <5
        Playsound SPLRestorationCast
        Player.UnequipItem 0AAMWEngravedRingOfHealing 1
        Set Discharged to Discharged + 1
        Set Casting to 1
    ElseIf Discharged >= 5
        Playsound SPLRestorationFail
        Player.UnequipItem 0AAMWEngravedRingOfHealing 1
        Message "This magical item has no charge."
    ElseIf Player.GetAV Health >= 75
        Playsound SPLRestorationCast
        Player.UnequipItem 0AAMWEngravedRingOfHealing 1
        Message "This ring can heal you no further."   
    EndIf
End

Begin Gamemode
    If Casting == 1
        Player.Cast 0AAMWRestoreHealthWeak Player
        Set Casting to 0
    EndIf
End

Begin MenuMode 1022 ;    Magic Menu recharges ring.

    Set Discharged to 0
End

The only part of this I find odd is the last bit about MenuMode - this would indicate that you could just recharge the ring for free by going to your magic menu...

 

 

Sot
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#6

Thats why my thought is to try to get the normal recharging system to charge this ring.

 

Maybe add to the Discharged variable. Use the SetCurrentCharge and set other stats accordinally and put it like..

 

          SetCurrentCharge to CurrentCharge - 5

 

If we can figure a way out to actually move the charges stat on the item.... Then then recharge in menu mode won't happen.

I know there is a way to add a spell as long as the item is in your inventory. It is: BeginOnPlayer    (i think)

 

Edit: It is BeginOnAdd

Sot
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#7

Is there anyone here, with exceptional scripting abilities that can help us figure this out. I can't seem to figure this one out?

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#8

Here is a mod that attempts to recreate 'cast when used' items (and also systematically discharges them).

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#9

thank you,

I tried looking on nexus, but for some reason I didn't find that.

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#10

Removing many generic morrowind items would be a simpler solution.  Quest items and unique Items could be adapted but aside from that it would be simpler to use oblivion loot. This would seem to be the most obvious solution to item balance issues.

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#11

@Orifice:

As one of the older (and now inactive) member of the project used to say:

We can always go back to cyrodil to get everything oblivionised ... let people have something different for  a change.

More variety is better than less. Many of us want Morrowind to be unique and original ... not just another recycled version of Oblivion.

 

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#12

That sounds all well and good in theory but do we really need a massive variety of cheap, worthless, crappy common items?

The vast majority of morrowind magic items are cast when used and so need to be converted, but is it really worth it?  Many won't be able to convert into something appropriate and will be discarded or end up  so completely different that they bear little rersemblence to what they were supposed to be. In short they will become non morrowind items, and therefore innappropriate for inclusion. 

It seems to me that some folks are getting irrationally attached to a load of old junk items!  Does this sound healthy to you?!

Oblivion already has an ample amount of junk items it doesn't really make sense to double it with even more junk that no one will use and no one wants.   Like I said before uniques and quest items are needed everything else, not so much!

(edited for spelling)

Actually, on further reflection,it occurs to me that some new 'junk' items will need to be created. In oblivion there is an abundance of low quality armours with small enchantments on them.  this will not be true concerning native morrowind armours.  So it may bee that we need some one to create these enchanted items to redress this oversight.

 

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#13

But a lot of the quests reward you with the so-called "useless junk". For example, the Gateway Haunting quest rewards you with either the Fighter, Mage or Thief Ring - depending on your choice.

True, I never quite use my magical items but the truth is that if I don't need it, I can always sell it to a merchant who will find it useful. In my Morrowind game, I have around 500 enchanted items and only 20 which I actually use. I always keep on telling myself to sell the darn things but I always forget.

I think that the "Cast On Use" simulation on the items can be worked on and this sort of thing was done before (look at the link of the mod which does this above). It's not like this thread is asking for the difficult-to-program-for missing spell effects like Blind or Sound. This is actually do-able. And Hashmi's right, the entire purpose of this mod is to recreate Morrowind in the Oblivion engine as much as possible. This shouldn't be a totally recycled version of Oblivion. I wouldn't want that at all.

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#14

Also, I would be appalled if it went to regular Oblivion loot. I already have that loot! The great thing about Morroblivion is that there is more loot, armor, and weapons, and artifacts to get. In the same way I hope that the Daedric, Dwemer, and Orcish armor sets do not get changed to their Oblivion counterparts because I enjoy the Morrowind textures better, and it is more armor to collect! Also, the only real Morrowind items I used were the constant effect kind, like the Dragonbone Curiass, Fists of Randagulf, Mentor Ring, etc. The rest I collect to put on my mannequins or on display to remind me of Morrowind.

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#15

@No One

Yes, I use the "Constant Effect" items most of the time myself! I prefer to keep my shiny trinkets just in case I can sell them or use them in an emergency. Though, I wear the Flamemirror/Frostmirror robes because they look nice and not because I want their magical enchantments.

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#16

Here is a mod that attempts to recreate 'cast when used' items (and also systematically discharges them).

This mod is quite brilliant, but unfortunately the methodology the author used to create these items will only work for the weapons that have cast when used effects (about 18% of the 385 cast when used items). 

I know because I tried to duplicate that methodology, but the problem is that there is no "charge" attribute for anything but weapons, so you can't use script commands like player.ModEquippedCurrentCharge -84 16 because the game says "hey, this item you are trying to change the charge of doesn't have a charge attribute.

So, the methodology in that mod will work for the weapons at least (although it is very time consuming to use it in the CS).

For the clothing and armor, it will have to be done with a script, like Fargoth's Ring that I pasted in above - that is fine, but it still has the problem of how to realistically recharge the items.  Currently, that script just recharges the item whenever you visit the magic menu.   I'm not sure how we can get them to recharge by paying gold to an enchanter/recharger, but maybe one option would be to have them recharge slowly over time, so you just have to not use them for a while.  This would have to be added to the script of course.

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#17

I'm working on the solution

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#18

I just downloaded Morroblivion (the Complete Installation) and I'm getting CTD's when loading a save with the Engraved Ring of Healing equipped - is this a known issue related to this problem, or a new bug?  If I load a save without the ring equipped, then equip the ring, I can load my saves with the ring equipped, but loading them immediately after starting the game causes the CTD.  Maybe the script associated with the ring needs to initialize when its equipped, but this doesn't happen when a save is loaded with it already equipped?

Edit: The problem seems to be fixed when I download the latest version of Universal Cast-When-Used.