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Mooncat
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Magic: Spells, Enchantments, and Scrolls

I've gone through all the Morrowind spells referenced in the UESP, put them in a big spreadsheet, and grabbed as many comparable Skyrim spells for reference as I can.  I'll try to adjust our Skywind spells to match Skyrim's magic balance and upload my spreadsheet later, but for now I'll get the ball rolling on discussion with this thread.

Here are the notes/concerns I have so far. If it's not listed here, then it means I think implementation of that particular effect will be relatively straightforward.

Charm: Because Skyrim handles disposition so differently from Morrowind, this one's tricky to figure out on a design level. For now, I'm thinking of making Charm an all-or-nothing effect that temporarily turns the target into the caster's friend.

General School Changes: Spells like Light, Paralyze, and Turn Undead have changed schools between Morrowind and Skyrim. Do we want to keep the Morrowind versions of these spells in their old Morrowind school, or move them to their Skyrim equivalents?

Redundant Spell Effects: There are many spells in Morrowind that are redundant. For example, Rally Beast and Rally Creature are identical, though I think one is supposed to be a Touch spell. Greater Shockball is the same as a normal Shockball. My inclination is to adjust these spells so they're different, by: A) changing spell magnitude/range/etc when it seems the original developers made a mistake and B) converting the spell to use a Skyrim-exclusive effect when the spells are different as a matter of taste, e.g. turning it into a Concentrate spell (like Skyrim's Healing or Frostbite).

Sound: There's no spell failure in Skyrim. What do you guys think of having Sound act as a spell magnitude debuff? I.e., 30 pts of Sound reduces the target's spell effectiveness by 30%.

Bound Weapons: I'm inclined to use Morrowind versions of weapons even for Bound spells that exist in Skyrim, like Bound Battleaxe.

Summon Spells: Again, I think it would be neat to use the Morrowind versions of all these creatures.

Burden: This will be easy to implement, but I'm not sure if it will actually do anything. Oblivion had this problem: Burden had no effect on NPCs.

Levitate: No idea how to implement this yet, but I'm sure I'll find a way.

Open: Morrowind has no native Open Master Lock spell (though I think there is a scroll). We could leave this be, or convert one of the redundant open spells (Ondusi's Open Door is identical to Strong Open) to open Master Locks.

Shield: In terms of raw effectiveness, Morrowind's Shield spells far outstrip Skyrim's Flesh spells, even after all perks are applied. Personally, I don't have a problem with this--how do you guys feel about some Morrowind magic just being outright better than Skyrim magic?

Slowfall: Since you can't cast magic mid-air in Skyrim, 10 seconds seems an awfully short duration. I say we make Slowfall not actually slow you down, just remove fall damage. That way, 10 seconds is more than enough time to make the spell useful.

Drain/Fortify/Absorb Attributes: We could map these to skills/attributes (meh), or we could attach specific buffs/debuffs according to what the attribute did in Morrowind (so Strength would buff melee damage and carry weight, for instance). This is fine for drain/fortify, but...

Damage/Restore Attributes: This could potentially be mega-messy for damage and restore spell effects. My biggest concern is that Skyrim has no way to tell you if your Strength has been damaged, so you could be running around weaker without really realizing you need to restore strength.

Disintegrate Weapons/Armor: My best guess for what we can do is a disarm effect (that can effect armor, for Disentegrate Armor). Anything else isn't feasible in the current engine... (We can't affect a weapon/armor's improvement rating with scripts.)

Drain/Damage Fatigue: What do you guys think about adding a knockdown effect to this spell when the enemy has 0 stamina?

Mysticism: Here are my thoughts on what should go to what schools:

  • Absorb: Destruction (Absorb Health is Destruction in Skyrim)
  • Intervention: Either Conjuration or Restoration (with all the other "holy" spells)
  • Detect X: Alteration, with Detect Life.
  • Dispel: My best guesses are Restoration or Alteration?
  • Mark/Recall: I think Conjuration is a good fit, based on lore in the Elder Scrolls novels.
  • Reflect: I think Alteration fits here, too.
  • Spell Absorption: Could be Alteration or Restoration (a la Wards).

Mark/Recall/Intervention: I think we should limit these spells to only work while you're in a Morrowind space, because they could really break things, especially when you add other mods to the list. With Skyrim, it will be very important for us to know if the player is in Morrowind or not, and this spell could break that.

Reflect: I see other mods have implemented reflect spells. I'll see how they do it. (For reference, Morrowind's Reflect is Reflect Spell. If only it was Reflect Damage, that would be trivial to implement...)

Cure Blight Disease: If we implement Blight Diseases as abilities instead of diseases, I can custom-script a spell that walks through all active effects and only removes abilities with the "BlightDisease" keyword. This will require SKSE, though.

Wild/Variable Spells: Spells that have a wide magnitude range as a selling point (for example, Wild Reflect, which is Reflect on self for 1-40 pts) present an interesting opportunity. I could probably implement a random spell range effect, but I think it would be more intriguing to combine these with some of Skyrim's built-in spell features. For instance, Wild Reflect could become a "cast on self concentrate" spell.

On-Cast Enchantments: Here are my thoughts on On-Cast Enchantments: Each on-cast enchanted item is associated with a specific spell. For instance, the Engraved Ring of Healing you find in the barrel at the census office comes with (for argument's sake) heal 3pts on self. When the ring is in your inventory, you get an "Engraved Ring of Healing" spell added to your powers. It's not associated with any school, and it has a set magicka cost. This power casts from your voice spell button so that you can cast with weapons out, and equipping the spell automatically equips the ring (unequipping the ring removes the spell).

Here's where things get interesting! You can disenchant the ring and put the spell on other rings. But why would you do that, if the spell's effects will always be heal 3pts on self, no matter how high your enchantment level? Because the enchantment comes bundled with a second effect: reduce on-cast enchantment costs by X%! So the more on-cast enchantments you're wearing, the cheaper it becomes to cast them, and you can cast them with your weapons out. The spells won't be as powerful as normal spells, but the added versatility makes up for it, I think.

Thoughts?

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/14/2014 - 22:27
Mehh
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http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/m

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/9153
This might help you out a bit. Also, in Morrowind I rarely used magic, I was more of a melee fighter, so I'm not to sure what to say. =p


Mark/Recall/Intervention: I think we should limit these spells to only work while you're in a Morrowind space, because they could really break things, especially when you add other mods to the list. With Skyrim, it will be very important for us to know if the player is in Morrowind or not, and this spell could break that.

Good idea! I know some people will say something like "blah blah blah just use fast travel" but keep in mind, a lot of players who play our mod will probably wanna use as little fast travel as possible.

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Thanks. I'll take a look at

Thanks. I'll take a look at how they balance magnitude and costs in that mod.

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Here's my thoughtsCharm: In

Here's my thoughts

Charm: In the quests, we've replaced the disposition with RelationshipRank, so your suggestion would work. You can have a look here for more details of the mapping we did : morroblivion.com/forums/skywind/skywind-development/2772

General School Changes: My opinion is to use the schools from Skyrim

Bound Weapons/Summon: Maybe have a distinct name between skyrim version and morrowind version ?

For the other points, I mostly agree ;)

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I agree with all the points.
I agree with all the points. Even with the removal of attributes, that would sound awesome! (Especially the enchantments one) :)
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I wish there was actually a

I wish there was actually a mark and recall spell in Skyrim now that I think about it.

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digitalparanoid wrote:Charm:

digitalparanoid wrote:

Charm: In the quests, we've replaced the disposition with RelationshipRank, so your suggestion would work. You can have a look here for more details of the mapping we did : morroblivion.com/forums/skywind/skywind-development/2772

That's great! Thanks.

digitalparanoid wrote:

General School Changes:
My opinion is to use the schools from SkyrimMy thoughts, too.

digitalparanoid wrote:

Bound Weapons/Summon:
Maybe have a distinct name between skyrim version and morrowind version ?For summon creature effects, they already do. For the bound weapon effects, they use different spellings between Morrowind <--> Skyrim:

Battle-Axe <--> Battleaxe
Longsword <--> Sword
Longbow <--> Bow

I'm not sure if Battle-Axe is distinct enough, though. Hm.

 

Thanks for the feedback, both of you! I'm going to keep tinkering with balance, though I probably won't implement any of the trickier spell effects until the next DLC (possibly named "Dragonborn") comes out. It looks like both Telvanni and Hermaeus Mora feature in the DLC, so they may make big changes to what magic we have access to...

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Damage/Restore

Damage/Restore Attributes: This could potentially be mega-messy for damage and restore spell effects. My biggest concern is that Skyrim has no way to tell you if your Strength has been damaged, so you could be running around weaker without really realizing you need to restore strength.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/13968
Well if you can figure out how this guy was able to add stats, that could solve that issue. I think most people want stats anyway.

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I suppose Damage attributes

I suppose Damage attributes could just be turned into a disease?  That way it'd still let you know.

After all, stats aren't being added by default to this mod last I'd heard.

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There is bound to be some

There is bound to be some more magic, I mean, how could they not when they are adding Telvanni content?  Though unfortunately no levitation.  The files we have seem to indicated automatic floating up and down within a Telvanni tower.

So I know we will probably make Dawnguard optional with an extra .esp to add crossbows, but do you guys think that we would want to make "Dragonborn" required for everybody?  It seems like it will have a lot of content that we could put to good use.

About Mehh's comment:  Would it be possible to make a menu such as that with SKSE, and have it openable with a hotkey? We would not add attributes like that mod (because it would affect too much of base Skyrim), but we could use it to show whether or not for example your strength needs to be restored.

Edit:  Actually, Enclave's idea sounds pretty good.  Would it be possible to just make them diseases?

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It's gonna sound pretty funny

It's gonna sound pretty funny seeing 'You have contracted Damage Magica disese', but eh, what ever gets the things ingame. =p

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Damage/Restore Attribute:

Damage/Restore Attribute: Actually, I've been toying with the idea of making them abilities. I don't like diseases, because then you could cure them with a single Cure Disease spell, and then what's the point of Restore Attribute spells/potions? But if it's an ability, then I could code the Restore Attribute effects to selectivly remove the abilities with the "DamageStrength" or "DamageAgility" etc. keywords. It's basically the same way I was thinking of implementing Blight Diseases.

I am against adding stats like in the Third Era Attributes mod. If people want stats, they'll use that mod or other mods like it (I'm pretty sure there's at least one attributes mod floating around out there). Personally, I don't miss their exclusion, and I don't want them to be forced on me--as far as I'm concerned, Perks were more than an equal trade. Others feel differently, and that's fine. It's why we have mods like Third Era Attributes.

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Here are some other thoughts

Here are some other thoughts that I had about your post Mooncat

Redundant Spell Effects:

B seems like a great idea.  There are a lot of different ways for spells to work in Skyrim that we didn't have in Morrowind. And let's face it, there is no way that a Nord could come up with something in the realm of magic that a Telvanni couldn't.

Shield:

I am perfectly fine with some Morrowind magic being stronger than Skyrim magic.  Magic is horribly underpowered when compared to normal weapons in Skyrim (without mods), and this could help balance that out

Slowfall:

I would rather keep the slower falling effect if that is at all possible, and just increase the duration of the spell instead.  So instead of 10 seconds, we could keep the effect for 20 seconds or somthing.  However if it is too hard to make the player actually slow down, then what you suggest is perfectly fine. 

Drain/Damage Fatigue:

Yes, definitely

Mysticism:

I would put spell absorption in Restoration, and Intervention in Conjuration, not sure about Dispel though.

Mark/Recall/Intervention:

Yeah, Intervention shouldn't work in Skyrim.  But I think that Mark and Recall probably should be able to so we don't have to get a separate mod and clutter up our magic menu.  They probably wouldn't break anything anyway, because from the mods I have seen, it will only be possible for mark and recall to work in locations you can fast travel from.

Cure Blight Disease:

I'm absolutely fine with requiring SKSE.  Every experienced mod user uses it, and those that are less experienced need to begin using it for so many reasons.

On-Cast Enchantments:

I really like your ideas here.  :)

Everything else sounds perfect, so keep up the good work.

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Cure Blight Disease:I'm

Cure Blight Disease:

I'm absolutely fine with requiring SKSE.  Every experienced mod user uses it, and those that are less experienced need to begin using it for so many reasons.

This, SKSE is like one of the first things you should be downloading when adding mods. We could just add some bolded text in the instructions telling players to download SKSE.

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Shadow wrote:There is bound

Shadow wrote:

There is bound to be some more magic, I mean, how could they not when they are adding Telvanni content?  Though unfortunately no levitation.  The files we have seem to indicated automatic floating up and down within a Telvanni tower.

So I know we will probably make Dawnguard optional with an extra .esp to add crossbows, but do you guys think that we would want to make "Dragonborn" required for everybody?  It seems like it will have a lot of content that we could put to good use.

About Mehh's comment:  Would it be possible to make a menu such as that with SKSE, and have it openable with a hotkey? We would not add attributes like that mod (because it would affect too much of base Skyrim), but we could use it to show whether or not for example your strength needs to be restored.

Edit:  Actually, Enclave's idea sounds pretty good.  Would it be possible to just make them diseases?

Honestly?  While I'm not a fan of DLC in general I don't have an issue making any or all of the DLC required.  After all, by the time this mod is ready for a general release odds are a Skyrim Game of the Year edition will be out.  Fact is that as time goes on most people will likely have all the Skyrim mods either from having bought them on steam sales for 75% off or from having bought the GOTY edition of the game.  It's generally easiest to just assume people have the dlc rather than accomodating people who don't.

Course, that could just be how I view things and not how everybody else feels.

 

Oh and regarding Dispel?  Seems like something that should be in the Conjuration field to me.  Additionally, SKSE really should be the first thing anybody modding Skyrim downloads.  I just assumed it would be required for Skywind.

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Shadow wrote:Slowfall:I

Shadow wrote:

Slowfall:

I would rather keep the slower falling effect if that is at all possible, and just increase the duration of the spell instead.  So instead of 10 seconds, we could keep the effect for 20 seconds or somthing.  However if it is too hard to make the player actually slow down, then what you suggest is perfectly fine.

I'm sure I can find a way. Yeah, I'll just double the effect duration or something.

Shadow wrote:

Mysticism
:

I would put spell absorption in Restoration, and Intervention in Conjuration, not sure about Dispel though.From a game mechancis standpoint, Intervention in Conjuration makes more sense. The only reason I even considered Restoration is because all of the other "holy" type spells in Skyrim are grouped with Restoration, and Intervention is literally calling upon the gods for help.

Shadow wrote:

Mark/Recall/Intervention:

Yeah, Intervention shouldn't work in Skyrim.  But I think that Mark and Recall probably should be able to so we don't have to get a separate mod and clutter up our magic menu.  They probably wouldn't break anything anyway, because from the mods I have seen, it will only be possible for mark and recall to work in locations you can fast travel from.Here's why I feel uneasy about allowing Mark and Recall outside of Morrowind: Skywind and Skyblivion will have to be able to track when you're in Morrowind, Cyrodiil, or elsewhere. For Morroblivion, this wasn't a big problem: you were either in Cyrodiil (vanilla), Shivering Isles (which was required for Morroblivion anyway, iirc), or Morrowind. I was able to build variable tracking directly into the Mark/Recall spell effect.

This time around, we'd have to track if the player is in Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Morrowind, Soul Cairn (I'm guessing--haven't looked at that code yet), or Solstheim. The problem is, each of these worldspaces belong to a different mod from each other. We have no way of ensuring that a Skywind user is also using Skyblivion or Dawnguard (unless we make either of them required). To compound that further, mods like Moonpaths to Elsweyr add even more worlds the player can visit, and I have no idea how dependent they are on knowing when the player enters or leaves their regions. This can be a big problem when these mods all start adding events to Skyrim's Story Manager, and we end up spawning Skyrim events in Morrowind or Morrowind NPCs in Soul Cairn or what have you.

All that said, the CS is pretty flexible. If I can figure out a way to track all these variables in Mark/Recall, I will.

 

Enclave wrote:

Honestly?  While I'm not a fan of DLC in general I don't have an issue making any or all of the DLC required.  After all, by the time this mod is ready for a general release odds are a Skyrim Game of the Year edition will be out.  Fact is that as time goes on most people will likely have all the Skyrim mods either from having bought them on steam sales for 75% off or from having bought the GOTY edition of the game.  It's generally easiest to just assume people have the dlc rather than accomodating people who don't.

This is how I feel, though I'd understand if it wasn't the most popular approach. :P

Enclave wrote:

Oh and regarding Dispel?  Seems like something that should be in the Conjuration field to me.

That's a possibility. What's your reasoning, though? I'm not totally convinced in the favor of any single school. Well, except Illusion or Destruction. But I could see it fitting in Alteration, Restoration, or Conjuration.
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Well, my reasoning is when I

Well, my reasoning is when I think of Dispel I view it as basically the polar opposite of creating something.  I know it's use is far more broad than that but it's just how it's hardwired into my brain from so many RPGs.

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Perhaps, but I view

Perhaps, but I view Conjuration as being principally about summoning (and sometimes shaping) something that already exists to you. Summon spells drag atronachs and dremora kicking and screaming from the planes of Oblivion to do your bidding; resurrection spells pull the souls of the dead back from the hereafter to temporarily reinhabit their old bodies (though these particular spells don't exist in Morrowind); even bound weapons/armor are lesser daedra forced to take the form dictated by the caster.

I'm inclined towards Restoration because Dispel is a sort of purification, which fits in with Restoration's new "holy" themes in Skyrim. In retrospect, Alteration doesn't seem that appealing anymore, so at least we're down to two possible schools now.

 

<Edit>

Almost forgot! I did a little test, and when overencumbered, Skyrim NPCs do not slow down like the player. Forcing them to slow down when encumbered might be tricky, too... I'll just implement the effect in a straightforward way for now, until I figure out an elegant way to make NPCs act encumbered when appropriate. At the very least, the player will have to worry about getting smacked with burden spells.

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what about blight diseases?

what about blight diseases?

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I think blight diseases

I think blight diseases should be implemented as abilities with the "MWBlightDisease" keyword (or something to that effect). Then the Cure Blight effect could scan through the target's abilities and remove any abilities with that keyword.

I got about a third of the way through with preliminary spell re-balancing before I fell off the face of the Earth. I'm going to upload what I have at my first chance, but things are looking pretty busy for the next month or two. If nobody else picks this up by then, hopefully I can get back to it. :(

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In morroblivion, I could use
In morroblivion, I could use Mark and recall in Cyrodiil and they were very useful. And I don't think they even had the potential to break any quests. Through a nightmare darkly silenced the player so they couldn't be able to break the quest, even if they wanted to. They'll be useful in Skyrim, I'm sure. Edit: I couldn't care less about intervention working in Skyrim.
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I scripted the Morroblivion

I scripted the Morroblivion Mark and Recall spells, which is why I'm concerned about them in Skywind. My main concern is the random world events that Skryim tosses at you. I was worried that we'd have to add blockers to prevent those events from firing in the wrong world. After further examination, I'm less worried about it now.

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If you are in

If you are in WRLD_Morrowind,and you used a mark and recall,to make cetain that it only happened in the morrowind world,you could place a condition on the spell[s] that checked that the player was actually in morrowind.?

 

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Yes, that would certainly

Yes, that would certainly work. The question isn't how we can make Mark and Recall only work in Morrowind, but IF we should make it only work in Morrowind.

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IMO Mark and recall should
IMO Mark and recall should work in Skyrim. It's so useful in escaping dungeons and I don't know what I'd do without it. I vote for keeping it in Skyrim. :) PS. It didn't have any potential to break any quests in oblivion. If Skyrim's quests are similar in style, it shouldn't be a problem I don't think.
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I can think of several quests

I can think of several quests that Mark and Recall could break: The World-Eater's Eyrie and Death Incarnate both have sequences that Recalling out of would utterly demolish.

That said, I think a disclaimer (Warning: Don't Recall at stupid times) would suffice.

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I think that it's better to
I think that it's better to keep it in Skyrim's worldspace but have that caution. I can't play oblivion without those spells and I would love to use them in Skyrim too.
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Or just wrap the Recall

Or just wrap the Recall script in an IF statement (this isn't exact code, just a demonstration:)

; check if a certain quest is at stage 55 - this when we want to disable recall
; or ( || )
; check if the player is in the cell where we want to disable recall

IF getstage DangerousQuestThatBreaksRecall == 55 || player.getincell DangerousLocationThatBreaksRecall == 1

    ShowMessage "Recall does not work in this location."

ELSE

    ;put the script stuff here that normally casts the Recall spell

ENDIF

 

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thermador wrote:Or just wrap

thermador wrote:

Or just wrap the Recall script in an IF statement (this isn't exact code, just a demonstration:)

; check if a certain quest is at stage 55 - this when we want to disable recall
; or ( || )
; check if the player is in the cell where we want to disable recall

IF getstage DangerousQuestThatBreaksRecall == 55 || player.getincell DangerousLocationThatBreaksRecall == 1

    ShowMessage "Recall does not work in this location."

ELSE

    ;put the script stuff here that normally casts the Recall spell

ENDIF

 

That gives me an idea.

What if we create a formlist of "dangerous" locations that you can't Recall away from? Places like Skuldafn, the Misty Grove, etc. We could even add compatibility scripts that detect what mods the player is running and adds them to the form list. For instance, if I'm playing thirteenoranges' excellent "And the Realms of Daedra" quest, I don't want to be able to break the quest by warping out of Hircine's Hunting Ground.

The next question then becomes: If you Mark a spot in Morrowind, then go to Skyrim and cast Recall, do you get sent back to Morrowind, or do we record separate mark locations for different provinces?

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I guess you can add an

I guess you can add an emergency recall. Like when you use recall, it'll memo where you recalled from just in case you eff something up. It might break immersion a bit, and might be a bit cheap, but that's the only thing I can think of.

 

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Take a good look around on

Take a good look around on the nexus between "Ancient spells," "Apocalypse Spells," and "Skyrim Redone" we already have most of the spells back in the game and as for the armor/weapon health there exists a script, though as of right now very inefficient, that readds the health of the item. As for my thought about the staff approach is that you can't keep track of an enchantment charge if you're just casting a straight spell without scripts.

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New mod with third era spells

New mod with third era spells appeared on the nexus:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/29170#

 

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What is the current status of

What is the current status of the work on magic effects? Has anything changed in the last four months on it?

I have some ideas for things. Unfortunately I don't think either are currently possible. Who knows though, Morroblivion pulled off some seemingly impossible things.

Disintegrate Weapon/Armor: Lowering the damage/armor value temporarily (stacking of course) and breaking it past a certain point would be pretty cool.

Slowfall: It would be much more in-line with the spell name if it actually slowed your falling speed, and it wouldn't be useful as a spell after you've begun falling. Having to pre-emptively cast it before you fall severely limits it. This leads to the topic of levitation...

Being able to cast midair is necessary for levitation to be as useful as it was in Morrowind due to needing to recast it when your levitation effect runs out midair, or when you slip off an edge (I remember a particularly hilarious epic moment in a let's play where a guy saved himself from falling into lava next to the Heart of Lorkhan by using the travel-stained pants).

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Sammael is working on magic.

Sammael is working on magic. There are things in v0.6 already.

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what kind of magic?

what kind of magic?

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At least enchantments, for

At least enchantments, for sure. I don't know for spells or scrolls. Try to get fargoth's ring for a simple example.

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Just leaving a link here on

Just leaving a link here on how to implement a slowfalling in Skyrim

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1472379-increasing-player-j...

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J3X has made a levitate

J3X has made a levitate spell. He also claims it's free to use as long as he is given credit for it. If nothing else, it shows us that it is possible to make a levitate spell and could lead us in the right direction when trying to do it. I was thinking of trying to figure out how he did it and make my own thing, but I'm still a little too knew to Papyrus for that, but I'm learning fairly quickly.

Here's a link to his mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19069/?

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Levitation is already in game

Levitation is already in game and yes I think it's based on j3x. Am I the only one to regularly drink a potion or rising force?

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digitalparanoid

digitalparanoid wrote:

Levitation is already in game and yes I think it's based on j3x. Am I the only one to regularly drink a potion or rising force?


Yeah, I don't get why people still think we don't have Levitation. We've had it for half a year. It could use some tweaks though, and maybe disable jumping while levitating.
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I haven't actually tried it.

I haven't actually tried it. All I've done is run around seeing if my quests work. Had I actually played the game a bit, I probably would have noticed it.

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I need to brush off the dust

I need to brush off the dust on this thread. As I mentioned in the post for leveled items, Morrowind spells aren't categorized as Novice vs. Expert. Almost every spell uses the Novice level perk for casting. This means you don't get Adept or Expert level perks when casting these (as I've always understood Skyrim's spellcasting). So I'm thinking that the spells need to be updated to their appropriate level/category so they use the correct perk.

I've done a start to this with the spelltome leveled lists. Not sure how accurate I was. I basically looked at each type of spell (Burden - Greater Burden, Burden of Sin, etc) and placed them into their level of Novice/Apprentice/etc based on the amount of casting points used and how powerful the spell is. I had forgotten how many duplicated spells there are in Morrowind. Different names for spells that do the exact same damage over the same timeframe.

Anyway, if all spells stay at the Novice perk level, then they are similar to how Morrowind treated them. If they are reclassified into Novice/Apprentice/etc, then they become closer to the way Skyrim treats them. I'm not totally sure which is the better solution, but right now a spell that costs 200 points is treated like a spell that costs 4 points. That seems strange to me. And what is the point in assigning perk points to spell casting if you won't get any benefits from it?

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> spelltome

> spelltome
= My thought not related, but may be we need to make smth new.
That's not really adequate - books that disappears when you read them.
May be it need to be some completely magical or be related to scrolls.
It will be good if player can destroy scroll on enchathment table for learn spell.

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Mooncat wrote:

Mooncat wrote:

Open: Morrowind has no native Open Master Lock spell (though I think there is a scroll). We could leave this be, or convert one of the redundant open spells (Ondusi's Open Door is identical to Strong Open) to open Master Locks.

Skyrim's "Open" spells always bothered me. Having to cast a power on yourself, then activate the containers just always felt like a workaround to an un-implemented feature.

I had started work a few months ago on a mod to put "real" unlock-on-touch-style spells in the game. The core issue -to my knowledge - is that spells can't "target" containers. However, QUESTS can ;-P

My memory's a bit hazy, but the basic logic was this:

- Spell casts a short range projectile, and puts a marker effect on the player (apprentice lock spell, journeyman lock spell, etc)

- If projectile impacts, fires a script that moves an NPC to the impact loc (NPC has had his collision/AI minimized/removed)

- NPC starts a quest looking for a nearby locked container of X (or lower) lock strength in a short range

- Quest script identifies the container, and if the player's spell was strong enough to unlock it, unlocks it with a satisfying VFX/SFX

- If the lock was too powerful, broadcast a failure message to the player

- If the container was owned, report a crime on the player

- Remove/Cleanup NPC

Unfortunately, shortly after I got it working, my HDD died and I haven't returned to Skyrim since.

I may have a few details off, but that was the general work flow I had to get it working. It was SO much more satisfying to target/cast spells on locked containers this way :-) Not sure if it's up your alley, but just FYI that's how I did it.