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lukkar
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I honestly like when skin is

I honestly like when skin is quite simple but for main page it could work. Yeah, for newcommers site is quite distracting.

grumpycat
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Why would I spend any of that

Why would I spend any of that amount of time I'd be willing to spend on a mod that I feel had no chance of going anywhere due to PR sabotage, when I can continue to work on a merchant empire mod that would see results in a couple weeks?

Merchant empire mod VS Morrowind in the Skyrim engine, its a close call, can't decide which one I'd want to play more!!!! You go girl...

Batmanna
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The simplest reason that

The simplest reason that comes in mind about " why would I spend any time on amod etc. " is: It's worth it.

I feel better investing my modding dedicated time on a project with an ambitious goal that will have ( belive it or not, I'm not here to convince you ) an awesome result when completed, instead of focusing on a easyer project that not intrigues me not even a fraction than Skywind.

In the end people that worked ( hard ) on this mod will look back and will feel amazed and satisfied from the fruit of their united efforts, knowing they have not lost their time on another trivial mod for Skyrim.

If we really cared about popping up with something with an easy succes we would have joined the ranks of the skimply outif / sexy follower modders .

On the other hand i agree about the fact that the lack of a constant and easy to look at track of progresses COULD lead people at considering that the project is dying, but since that's not happening , a quick fix will be probably done on this side.

Other than that, I'm looking forward to the release of your merchants mod.

lazynumber13
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What people want in a big mod

What people want in a big mod like this is to explore the map and do the TES3 quests. Things that can't be enjoyed if you have to use the console to advance quests all the time or constantly crashing while exploring. So I find it perfectly normal that an alpha is not released.

Seeing new lands, etc may look fine for a moment, but most users would get bored/annoyed pretty soon if they can't explore or do the quests. And that's what can actually hurt the PR, and not the other way round:

"- Hey a new version of Skywind is up.

- You mean that famous mod that crashes all the time and destroy your computer?"

Even if you make the mod paint a big red ALPHA on some corner of the screen (heck, or even in the center), it would still happen.

As for the site skin... well, I don't know if it was intended, but I feel like all this blue is like an ocean for the top-left tamriel map/logo. I personally like its simplicity, but that's up to tastes...

eliaslear
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So, i'm one of those POS'

So, i'm one of those POS' that like to torrent games and then buy them if they're good. i have bought every game bethesda has released in the elder scrolls and fallout series (also mass effect and halo. honestly those are the only games i've ever really enjoyed beside kalonline but that's free). that being said, and knowing this is not bethesdas doing, how are we going to do donations and contributions once the project is complete? maybe a mass list of all devs we can donate to to be split up to on paypal? just wondering, as i believe everyone's work on this project should be rewarded. if i could pay to hurry this up i would. 

btw the new shadow of morrowing trailer on youtube is beautiful.

and the blue on this site doesn't match. maybe a golden brown.

Smitehammer
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Ravanna has a good point, too

Ravanna has a good point, too. Right now we have a lot of the same problems as Morroblivion from a legal perspective, as most of the interiors, for instance, are still placeholders from Morrowind. These models and textures aren't even necessarily owned by Bethesda - they may have just been licensed. Also, without an installer that checks for Morrowind we are further opening ourselves to legal backlash.

Personally, I'm still in the camp of people that thinks as soon as we have all the assets for one town we should release a 'demo' of a fully polished city with an installer that checks for Morrowind. It's not a matter of 'private clubbing'. My primary concern is to cover our asses legally, and my secondary concern is to only release fully polished things to the public so people get sense for the standards of the project.

Sancez
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That's why I suggested

That's why I suggested releasing a demo and not an alpha: you get out of the ship, create your character, take your documents (selecting class, birth sign etc), and then you are out in Seyda Neen. Only Seyda Neen. Maybe doing two or three simple quests in this area.

In my opinion it is a good compromise between the potential mess of an alpha (with a full but not complete and not fixed game, so full of bugs and CTD) and the need of the community to advertise the project by letting people and potential new contributors download and try the mod.

In a demo you can focus for a while your whole work force, dedicating your efforts on a small and limited area in order to show to the whole internet the full potential of this project: full voiced NPCs, all meshes and textures updated and replaced, new creatures (new for Skyrim players at least), some news armors and weapons. No bugs or CTD, since the demo is small you can manage to optimaze it.

I can see the hype of the internet go to the stars after trying something like this.
Then you should really see the tsunami of people on this forum not with stupid questions but, desiring more of Skywind, desirous of participating. And a lot of "release date?" question of course, lol.

 

Smitehammer
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Some place like Balmora might

Some place like Balmora might be better, if we have the assets close to completion. It's a bit larger in scope, definitely iconic, and it would lack the cinematics which will we may want to tweak before a final release, and may be a bit tricky on the VA side for various reasons. We'll need to see how far we are on finishing interior assets for the various places - for this a nice 'progress report' page readily accessible from the site would be nice.

twentyenginerunner
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I've always thought this

I've always thought this project would be well served by a little production blog. Videos are good, but require a lot of work, and usually wouldn't be released for small, incremental things. A few updates a week might assuage any fears about the community "dying" and could keep the public informed.

Taerkalith
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Smite, the mesh/model section

Smite, the mesh/model section of the forum already has a progress report area (although expect some lag in updates). Still tons to do, not to rain on the excellent work that's already been done of course! At the rate that we are replacing old assets, I think it may be appropriate to explore the legal possibilities of releasing Skywind in some form without 100% asset replacement as much of the game will be quite playable before this point. If it's just a matter of getting an installation checker that is something we could do, however I feel like it may be more of a matter that the assets were only licensed for use for "morrowind" not to be used in any other product such as Skyrim or Skywind.. Anyone know the nitty gritty??

tjcrandall
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A weekly changelog shouldn't

A weekly changelog shouldn't be __too__ much extra work and would allow for users to get the feeling progress is being made.  openmw.org does this very well, as an example.

DIYDeath
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That's kind of the nature of

That's kind of the nature of the beast. You will always have silly people asking about NPCs being naked, people asking why they cant finish X quest.

That's completely normal and those people deserve one word responses as a courtesy: pre-alpha

It's also what I said was going to happen, mind you it took about twice the time I said it was going to happen in - but my point still stands.

Personally I believe for the good of garnering attention and getting relevant feedback a new public beta/pre-alpha should come out.

Who really cares if people ask stupid questions? If they've already been answered by a FAQ or they're just dumb comments about naked people they should be ignored. If you care about stupid questions you have high expectations of humanity and will forever be let down.

Anyhow that's my 2 cents.

 

Sancez
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I'm watching some of

I'm watching some of Rebelzize's lets play Skywind Preview on youtube, the last episode is from 8 months ago, but I must say for a pre-alpha the game looks really good.
I agree with argument that releasing the alpha is a mistake: legal questions about assets, stupid questions from people who can't read a faq, are more the problems that the benefits.

But I'm thinking, always remaining on the idea of releasing a public demo (Balmora or another place, it's the same), a great publicity would be other lets play videos on youtube, not only preview or devblogs like until now (that are great, but why don't do better?). The one doing the lets play should be a member of the team of course, not some random guy on the internet.



EDIT: thinking more about the lets play videos, are guys familiar with the concept of beauty play? A guy who really can do a beauty play is Gopher, whose lets play videos you can find on youtube. Maybe asking him if he could do some videos with the pre-alpha would be a good publicity. He's also very good at explaining stuff, so the stupid questions would be less.

prusty
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Maybe you can just send the
Maybe you can just send the file download to enthused fans who promise not to ask questions.
Ravanna
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That would be illegal sharing

That would be illegal sharing of morrowind assets.

Every second we type in this awful thread, we lose actual modding time.

*ironic self-realisation*

I just lost 46 seconds.

Thermocrius
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DIYDeath wrote:

DIYDeath wrote:

Who really cares if people ask stupid questions? If they've already been answered by a FAQ or they're just dumb comments about naked people they should be ignored. If you care about stupid questions you have high expectations of humanity and will forever be let down.

That's what we thought too at first. Eventually you get sick of it. It's fine at first, then it gets really annoying. Trust us on this.

Sjors Boomschors
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Why do my trusted followers

Why do my trusted followers not follow me!
( NAVMESH now finalized )
 

grumpycat
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The reason threads like this

The reason threads like this get people typing is because inherently we like to argue and we don't like to be told what to do. Every project needs a troll or two to rally up the troops in defense of "something"....20 seconds down the toilet...

agure
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Ravanna wrote:

Ravanna wrote:

Merchant empire mod VS Morrowind in the Skyrim engine, its (sic) a close call, can't decide which one I'd want to play more!!!! You go girl...

It's just an example, I am actually working on a sophisticated husbandu mod with the most unreleastic body replacers imaginable just to Un-ironically hammer in how silly Bara is. Hit a snag on adding orc teeth to said husbandu Nord though because I've never had access to accessible tools like 3ds max until after college. (Blender was not as user friendly as I could have hoped when I tried it as a kid.) Time to learn it I suppose, probably as ridiculously convoluted as I think it is.

Speaking of ridiculous, was that comment meant to be an insult at the end? Don't make me get an SJW with a chip on her shoulder from tumblr, they are far scarier than a supposed troll who doesn't agree with you.

Back on topic, this engine mod blog has the right idea in terms of PR: (https://openmw.org/en/)

>Update videos per major development milestones

>Snazzy appearance.

>Blog spots which discuss the current implementations, as well pictures to excite audiences like fabio used too.

>Ease of access and navigation, with streamlined link displays for that sexy web browsing you've always wanted to do

This topic also raises another question, will there be a time where the game uses it's own unique assets without the old assets to crutch it? That'd be pretty neat; or will we be able to download morrowind gotye from steam install skywind and than delete the gotye to save HS/SSD space?

Deadman001
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Wakka wakka.

Wakka wakka.

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eh ehTsamina mina zangalewa

eh, eh,

tsamina mina zangalewa

 

Taerkalith
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agure, give the site a few

agure, give the site a few weeks. You'll notice a bit of a facelift soon. Stuff has been in the works for awhile in the dev forum. It will be more intuitive and friendly to curious visitors or would be volunteers and the FAQ will reflect where we are at currently.

Skywind is aiming to use 100% unique/skyrim assets with no ported morrowind assets. Both games will probably still have to be installed for legal reasons but this is not something high on our list right now so it is hard to accurately say.

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hmmm. i see. why not open it

hmmm. i see. why not open it up for a test trial, and see what happens! i mean how hard could it be. if things get clogged and people rage, shut it down. if things run smoothly keep it up!

oh and why not just make a different forum for download issues!

Taerkalith
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Because when your car only

Because when your car only has three wheels it ain't ready for the road. Patience please!

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What must someone do to get

What must someone do to get access to it then? There should be an application page with information about how it isn't finished so randoms don't just complain about it.

agure
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EL GUAPO wrote: What must

EL GUAPO wrote:

 What must someone do to get access to it then? There should be an application page with information about how it isn't finished so randoms don't just complain about it.

That's the entire complaint behind this thread really, they say it's an open door community but then there's no information given on how to contribute or get started or even with the status of everything. In fact they've made more detrimental decisions publicly that has effected their capacity to mod... Then when you point that out you get rebuttals about how they don't need to report anything to the community, but its become apparent that they DO need some modders to join like T3nd0 to work on the perk system at this point (Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_knFHU3EGe6_KFVPN68kXCF6WB1fTWTgCvj3ozipimA/edit#gid=0)

When some of them do lose their argument, they resort to deflection, insults, and character attacks to drive down the point.

Then there are others like Taekarlith who actually address the conversation and have given good reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea to put up the download. (Don't give me crap like "We have this thread once per week" As an excuse to not put it in the freaking FAQ though.)

They make it difficult to find out where to begin (Yes I know it's in the project subforums now, thats not even said in the FAQ again.)  and when 3/4 people generally behave insufferably and treat it like their secret club as other people have pointed out it's no wonder why people think this project will die OR is dead sadly.

Honestly I really want this project to workout, I want to see what Michael Kirkbrides vision re-imagined would look and play like. 

grumpycat
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Membership to the 32 level

Membership to the 32 level secret club (I'm a level 30, Michael Kirkbride has been benevolent leader for over a decade now), consists of something like this;

"hi, i want to help"

"cool, welcome to the club"

ayrasci
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Oh Agure, Argue, Egura...

Oh Agure, Argue, Egura... Whatever the hell your name is or means.

I've been here longer than many of you including members, contributors and even a moderator or two...just sayin'...overall, I'm nobody... :P

@GrumpyCat I miss HappyChappy. Is he ever coming back?

This forum thread is a perfect example of why I've continued spending my time reading this (and occasionally adding my own two cents...sorry I drunkenly condemned throat singing ;) over the past two or so years from: Morroblivion only, to the incorrect assumption of the impossibility of Skywind, to talks with the Andoran crowd about initial converters, the name debacle (Morroblivirim anyone?),  to the initial creation of Skywind and Skyblivion, the transition to TESRenewal.com from Morrowblivion.com, and the constant updates of progress from this awesome team, etc.

Why do I say it is a perfect example? Well, I love the community interactions on this site. A perfect newcomer with a loud mouth (yes, you Agure) has already helped bring light to Thermocrius' attempt to update the website which I can agree is slightly outdated... (the main page picture is from 2013...) This, in and of itself, is a perfect example of how wrong Agure is on mentioning that this is not an open community. If someone is willing to speak their mind freely and make a good point, this team seems to be very willing to listen. Now, if your just gonna spout bullcrap saying, "Just give us the download!! Cause, we want it!!!" than expect a negative reception. They've made their decision and we'll get it when we get it. I tried every version of Skywind before they pulled the download and never asked a single stupid question (except mentioning the cups...I mean, how can you not mention cups floating in the Ghost Gate?!? It was just too funny! :) I was disappointed when they pulled the download, but that just made me more interested in following the active topic threads on the forum. I completely agree with their decision because when I next test out Skywind, it is going to be bloody amazing! That waiting and anticipation will make it that much more exciting. Think about a real video game studio. If your lucky, you may see a teaser trailer or two before launch. Be thankful you are getting as much progress updates as you are instead of condemning hardworking people you don't even know for something that they haven't even done wrong.

@Veloth Didn't you get banned or something? :/

Edit: To add to the amazingness of this thread, I think it is awesome that a general "troll" went from badmouthing the team to helping out by adding tutorials to help out newcomers. Respect for that Agure!

Taerkalith
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Agure: T3nd0 = Snakey

Agure: T3nd0 = Snakey

he's going to help out on perks where he has the time. Things are not as bleak as the front page may seem, we're quite alive and well.

Taerkalith
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El guapo: if you have skills

El guapo: if you have skills that you think you can lend us to complete the project we'd be happy to take you on board. The volunteer aspect of the site is in the midst of an overhaul right now. Our newest youtube video does a decent job of outlining the areas where we need help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql3FNCrYkGU

If you are interested in contributing please post in the appropriate linked thread that best reflects your area of interest from the youtube page with your current skills and desire to help.

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I can't believe I'm back in

I can't believe I'm back in here bumping this tired thread, but I wanted to make it clear that the decision to update the site is attributed 100% to Thermocrius' long and very vocal attempt to get the FAQ updated.

I'm not saying that we don't listen to loud mouthed newcomers. A good fight keeps people emotionally invested in the project and gives a fun distraction to all the hard working members. Not to mention that sometimes an outside perspective can really ring true, and give us a new and valuable perspective.

I just want to make sure that when the blog, twitter account, FAQ, and gallery are all live that credit is given to the right people. We actually created a PR position to handle our apparent image problem. Huge Congratulations to Mace on receiving this promotion.

Seeing as I'm in here. Nice avatar Argue. I have to wear rose colored glasses so I don't spend all my precious time arguing with half wits that like to spew doom and gloom with a dash of wikipedia statistics. You probably shouldn't count on living to 80 with your personality. I may be resulting to name calling but it feels so good, I can't help myself.

agure
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Starting from bottom to top

Starting from bottom to top here.

Ashking wrote:

I'm not saying that we don't listen to loud mouthed newcomers. A good fight keeps people emotionally invested in the project and gives a fun distraction to all the hard working members. Not to mention that sometimes an outside perspective can really ring true, and give us a new and valuable perspective.

No that'd be too direct, you don't want to tell anyone that they might be right about PR being an actual thing you guys need because of this thread and an awesome community member on your side was vocal about it.

Assking wrote:

Nice avatar Argue. I have to wear rose colored glasses so I don't spend all my precious time arguing with half wits that like to spew doom and gloom with a dash of wikipedia statistics. You probably shouldn't count on living to 80 with your personality. I may be resulting to name calling but it feels so good, I can't help myself.

Aww you do care, I hope you like my new one which I spent a minute making just for you.

Taerkalith wrote:

          Agure: T3nd0 = Snakey

          he's going to help out on perks where he has the time. Things are not as bleak as the front page may seem,                   we're quite alive and well.

Oh ok, thanks for addressing that. Then its not as bad as it looks, with the new PR team announcement now it'll help your project along with volunteers :)

ayrasci wrote:

Oh Agure, Argue, Egura... Whatever the hell your name is or means.

It means man in basque, at least that's what google translate tells me.  It also means Old man in old french too.

ayrasci wrote:

 perfect newcomer with a loud mouth (yes, you Agure) has already motivated the team to update the website which I can agree is slightly outdated...This, in and of itself, is a perfect example of how wrong Agure is on mentioning that this is not an open community. If someone is willing to speak their mind freely and make a good point, this team seems to be very willing to listen.

It speaks even more volumes that Ashking later confirms that Thermocrius was 100% of the reason, and not any actual input from the communities multiple threads on the subject, your point is invalidated and it displays rather nicely of the closed door community aspect of this team.

See, you can claim that you have an open door policy, and it's nice to pretend that you do too. But the fact that it took a very vocal member of your crew to get through to whatever project heads you have that, maybe, you actually need a PR team to keep up the interest and by extension the traffic flow to this website is just down right absurd. 

So traffic went on a downward curb, and the influx of volunteers was less than what it used to be. If you had done this earlier, how many months could you have taken off from this projects ETA?  You created a problem by taking the download down for a very valid reason, but then you just ignored the consequences up until now. So yes the project may not die, or it may who knows?  All I am saying is it at least deserves the best chance it can get, and I'm glad you guys/gals are continuing the community updates again.

Aurabelle
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I think this thread has

I think this thread has cleared some air around here, but has definitely outstayed its welcome. I'm hereby locking this thread, and anyone with a problem with that is welcome to take it up with me. 

The FAQ will be updated presently to answer these questions officially, and our newly appointed PR relations person, Mace, will help us keep you all updated accordingly.

 

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