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Ravanna
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[WIP] Dwemer Race (playable + Ghosts)

Whilst creating the dwemer statue for buildings, I started creating a dwemer model, based on dunmer.

The model is much closer to the original concept by kirkbride (?), the faces are much less bold and strong, and I used an assyrian and asian feel.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130217233547/elderscrolls/images/e/e1/Concept_art_of_two_dwemer_people.jpg

This is a dwemer without a beard or hair, so obviously its odd right now, but the females would be like this too.



What direction shall I go in? I have to get the files of a dunmer before I can start working with files that are skinned, so the final design will be more restricted.

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/15/2014 - 01:38
grumpycat
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I don't think there should be

I don't think there should be too many restrictions. As long as format for separating eyes, mouth, hair, etc is followed...at least that is what i think from my limited knowledge.

About the only thing design wise is that it may be too close to a Dunmer. As soon as you stick a beard on them of course that changes that completely, but maybe you could go for a slightly wider face? I could see that making them look a bit like the classical Roswell alien as well :-P

 

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happychappy wrote: About the

happychappy wrote:

About the only thing design wise is that it may be too close to a Dunmer

Which isn't too bad seeing as they live in the same location and share a common ancestor.

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Here's a good dwemer

Here's a good dwemer reference pic. Yours is pretty damn good.

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Ravanna Im uploading all the

Ravanna Im uploading all the meshes and textures all packaged up and organized how we will need them now i will pm them to you, if there is any problems or you need something else just say the word, im still working on getting the esp set up, but as long as you replicate the the setup im sending you we should be good!

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First of all, I think the

First of all, I think the sketch looks great and I like the direction.

However, I have to nerd out a bit. There's actually no real evidence of what the Dwemer really looked like. The only surviving Dwemer is bloated with corpus disease and the only other lead there is to go off of is the Dwemer spectors found in ruins (which don't portray the tone of their skin. I'm assuming it's a ghastly white because they are spirits.) While all mer have a common ancestor, the Dunmer have ashy skin because they were cursed by Azura for the tribunal's use of the tools of Kagrenac and are direct descendents of the Chimer. All that aside, I believe Azura could very well have cursed them to appear as the Dwemer for the use of their tools. 

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looks perfect  wat i have

looks perfect  wat i have heard is that dwemmer are mostly like the original elf aldmer (no not the high elf altmer) but have a gray skin so this would cover it i would say its probably gone  be the beards and clothes that  would make it a real dwemmer

for the rest maby a bit biger eye's the do live underground but there are no facts for that 

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Did... Did you not just read

Did... Did you not just read what I wrote? Literally one post above yours.

The Dwemer are not the Aldmer, they evolved from them, just like the Chimer, Altmer, Bosmer, etc.

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Longboardlemon

Longboardlemon wrote:

 There's actually no real evidence of what the Dwemer really looked like. 

Have you played Morrowind? Those dwemer ghosts are just slightly see through dwemer.

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They might be pale because

They might be pale because they're well... Dead :P We're talking about skin colour here (sensitive matters). In my mind they always appeared more pink'ish in skin tone like Yagrum, but that might be the matter of corprus. It would be much more likely that they're golden like ancient Aldmeri, but more pale because they don't get that much sun living underground near active volcanoes.

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You can use this ressource

You can use this ressource (I'd like to see female hair like this too : ) http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/30062/?

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Dwemers.... well imo this can

Dwemers.... well imo this can be subject of a future TES game, which also opens the possibility of new lore on the mater. We pretty much don't know anything about them.

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tbh its more a case of "how

tbh its more a case of "how the hell do i create tri files" for the new race morph target. I need someone who uses blender. I can make a better beard in my sleep, its just the tech I cant do atm. I NEED A TECH ARTIST!

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If you can make better beards

If you can make better beards in your sleep can you also start doing a few other models during this unproductive period? Just some of the more basic stuff.

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That's actually very likely.

That's actually very likely. I remember after Bethesda announced that they're finished working on Skyrim, they copyrighted 'Redguard'. I know there's a lot of Dwemer influence in Hammerfell if you've played the original Redguard. They're one of the only places with one of those Dwarven Starchart Machine things, the others being Cyrodiil and Skyrim/

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Plus Hammerfell is named

Plus Hammerfell is named after Volendrung which is originally a Dwemer artifact.

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I like the look of your

I like the look of your Dwemer!  As for how to edit TRI files: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Working_with_Skyrim_head_... Not sure how to do it without Blender, but I have blender installed and...well, I haven't been able to find the time to learn it well enough to be remotely good with it, though I think it may be possible to use it as an intermediary program...though I'm fairly certain there's plenty of things that could go wrong along the way.  I've been wanting to make a custom race that would require new tri files for a while, I may be able to learn Blender well enough to help out, but don't get your hopes up, I work in retail and it's the holiday season.

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Considering they spent a lot

Considering they spent a lot of time underground, it stands to reason they'd be pale.

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Is say go with a light pale

Is say go with a light pale gray like Yagrum.  These guys split from the Aldmer long ago, and before the Chimer came to town shared a good deal of their land with the Falmer, which are very light skinned themselves.  No reason to believe they'd still be golden skinned like the Altmer's eleven ideal.  Even their god Numidium had grey 'flesh'. Stone and bronze, yes, but a god crafted in the dwemer's own image.

I always thought they looked like a mixture between ancient Byzantium for dress and the Ainu aboriginals from Japan as far as facial features.  It's the beards and eyes.

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I don't think Yagrum is a

I don't think Yagrum is a good basis for the Dwemer race. As can be seen in the corprus-infected enemies, pale skin seems to be one of the effects of the disease so we don't know for sure if all Dwemer are pale. The other races of Mer all have different skin pigments; Dunmer skin is blue, Altmer skin is yellow, Orsimer skin is green, Bosmer skin is white. Falmer evolved naturally pale skin but they were forced to live underground permanently by the Nords and the Dwemer.

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Bosmer skin is more tan than

Bosmer skin is  usuallymore tan than 'white', but all I was saying is there's no reason to believe they had the same color skin as the Aldmer they descended from (which was probably something like we see with Almalexia and the Altmer).  As for the corprus making skin pale, sure, but they only had one model for the corprus stalkers which looked to be based on a male Breton appearance, which would mean he already had skin that was fairly light and slightly jaundiced.  Imagine the dwarven spectre without the chameleon effect and you'd have a good approximation of the skin color of Yagrum without the disease marks, a lighter grey to the Dunmer's  dark ash grey.   http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/beast_m...

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Dunmer skin is ashen grey,

Dunmer skin is ashen grey, not blue, and Bosmer have light yellow/tan skin, not white.

As for the Dwemer's skin color, we actually had a discussion about this recently on the Imperial Library lore forum. No consensus was met, but the more popular concept appeared to be somewhere between yellow and brown.

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Why?  Lots of clues we've

Why?  Lots of clues we've seen in Morrowind would point to light grey, but nothing at all points to dark tan or golden as the Aldmer were originally.  Not the ghosts, not Yagrum, not the existence of other mer like Falmer, and Maomer.

These (Falmer and Maomer) are elves descended from Aldmer but whose skin is not the same color at all, though it was not changed by divine intervention like the Orsimer or Dunmer, or maintained golden by eugenics like the Altmer.

The only time I've seen any representation of Dwemer as golden was the busts in Skyrim - but those were just made from the Dwemer's corrosion-resistant brass.  Bronze human statues appear the same way, but that doesn't mean our skin is that color.

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They will be pale. not white

They will be pale. not white like snow elves, but dull tones. skin tone varies amongst each race anyway. 
My method of skin painting will be more organic than bethesdas, so you'll be seeing more veins/flesh under the skin, and better SSS shaders.

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I admit to being a bit biased

I admit to being a bit biased here because I feel like brownish skin fits with their Assyrian aesthetic. You make a very good point about Maormer and Falmer. That said, I still think that Yagrum Bagarn is a bad example because everyone with corpus in the game has the same skin color and the Dwemer Ghosts are all faded, washed-out forms of their former selves.

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Yes, but the majority of the

Yes, but the majority of the dwemer race is found underground, where the sun does not shine.  Think of the dwemer as Assyrian elves who played too much WOW. Hence the facial shape, but pale complexion.  Besides Yagrum, there will probably not be any/many dwemer in this game who aren't ghosts, so skin color should not be quite a large issue.  While there may be artwork depicting them and even a few NPCs, this really doesn't require this much debate.

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What is the destiny and

What is the destiny and purpose of ghosts (not only Dwemeris)?

Bethesda changes their roles very wide - from banal role of aggressive (and killable) enemies to ambient and NPC role (such as in Shivering Isles). What if we make them really indestructible and non-attacking (i.e. poses no lethal threat, but have, for example, some magicka feeding and curses) ?

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Yeah, i played the game. That

Yeah, i played the game. That's my incorrect wording, i mean more game role than destiny/purpose.

Just will be good if ghost will be more spiritual (and so indestructable, only turned by spell) and have more psychological effect then giving physical damage.
Actually will be good if any undead resurrect some time after "death" (about minutes).

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alysander wrote:

alysander wrote:

Yeah, i played the game. That's my incorrect wording, i mean more game role than destiny/purpose.

Just will be good if ghost will be more spiritual (and so indestructable, only turned by spell) and have more psychological effect then giving physical damage.
Actually will be good if any undead resurrect some time after "death" (about minutes).

Ghosts only being damaged by Magic, Silver and Daedric weapons is how it's been in the series anyway, as has them doing physical and cold damage. And as for Skeletons resurrecting, that's never been a thing in any of the games. The magic holding them together doesn't regenerate after expiring. This may be Bethesda we're talking about, but i think resurrecting Skeletons is one of those things where if Bethesda wanted it to be a thing in the series, it would be a thing by now. It's not for lack of engine capabilities that it's never been in any of the games.

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> Ghosts only being damaged

> Ghosts only being damaged by Magic, Silver and Daedric
Then why not to make it better? That's look palliative, instead community can make them really scary and requiring a special approach. Invulnerable creature will make more psychological effect on player x10.

IMHO still i think that all undead need to be resurrecting until it trapped in soulstone.

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If one was to implement self

If one was to implement self-resurrecting undead, ala Skyrim Immersive Creatures, there would have to be a solid limit to the number of times they get. Otherwise you cross into adding difficulty without fun. Also, if they required soulgems and soultrap to finally kill, you make many dungeons potentially unplayable to anyone who plays avoiding Magicka.

While I'm thinking of it, and it is on-topic-ish. Was it ever confirmed in game lore WHAT Dwemer spectres were? They always seemed like an anomoly in the lore.

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> Also, if they required

> Also, if they required soulgems and soultrap to finally kill, you make many dungeons potentially unplayable to anyone who plays avoiding Magicka.
= IMHO magic need to be used vs magic. Crude strength can be useful against something other.

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Stairmasternem wrote:

Stairmasternem wrote:

While I'm thinking of it, and it is on-topic-ish. Was it ever confirmed in game lore WHAT Dwemer spectres were? They always seemed like an anomoly in the lore.

They are the ghosts of Dwemer that died before Kagrenac used the Tools. Why they're trapped in Mundus is anyone's guess. Probably the same as any other ghost.

alysander wrote:

> Also, if they required soulgems and soultrap to finally kill, you make many dungeons potentially unplayable to anyone who plays avoiding Magicka.
= IMHO magic need to be used vs magic. Crude strength can be useful against something other.

That is poor design. Anyone should be capable of dealing with any enemy, even if  different approaches are optimal for specific enemies.

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> Anyone should be capable of

> Anyone should be capable of dealing with any enemy

= That's some game simplification. IRL you need instruments and abilities to make something. Also non-mage can use charmed to soul trap item.
= Will be good if ghosts would greater threat to mages (siphon mana at least or mute), curses, but cannot causing hp damage to any pc, because you know - they are ghosts.
= To calm undead forever non-mage can take it's ingredients (better if this will be some heart or other soul-related organ).
 

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Morrowind is not like a rpg

Morrowind is not like a rpg where u can select a class and you are bound by it. If a monster needs a certain tactic, the environment of the game gives you all the tools to prepare for that encounter. You buy a spell, read a book for magic skill (destruction for example), practice in the wilderness vs lower tier creatures etc, craft / buy an item that may help you with that endeavor, you name it. This is not a scripted game were you have to do quest x or you are stuck, you can always get other quests that are more fit for your development and you can come and retry later. This is the beauty of TES and the real meaning of a free world play and is similar to real life (hence immersion) by doing so...

Maybe you have not read it, but the purpose of this overwhelming work is not to enhance TES lore but to enhance / transpose Morrowind experience to current 2012 - 2014 gaming capability, but in the bounds of the LORE.

If any changes have been made is mainly because they were forced to by circumstances and most changes are pretty much argumented.

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I'm not saying make it easy.

I'm not saying make it easy. I'm saying don't make it impossible​. If a player is stubborn/skilled/lucky enough, they should have a chance to prevail, especially against something like a skeleton, which has never done what is being suggested in previous games or the lore.

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alysander wrote:

alysander wrote:

> Ghosts only being damaged by Magic, Silver and Daedric
Then why not to make it better? That's look palliative, instead community can make them really scary and requiring a special approach. Invulnerable creature will make more psychological effect on player x10.

IMHO still i think that all undead need to be resurrecting until it trapped in soulstone.

The goal of Skywind and Morroblivion is to remake Morrowind while still remaining faithful. Changing the undead like that would be unfaithful to Morrowind, and the series on a whole.

I am fine with them sapping your magicka, something like that could be indicative of their chilling touch affecting your concentration, or it stealing magicka to sustain itself since spirits draining energy is a thing even IRL. But if you absolutely want invulnerable/resurrecting undead that require soultrapping to kill and such, make a separate mod for it. I strongly disagree with making it an official part of the mod itself.

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yeah i'll be starting a new

yeah i'll be starting a new thread when I start working on the dwemer.