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iceflame542
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[WIP] Skywind Crafting

I'm starting a discussion about how the various fields of crafting available as part of Skyrim gameplay should be implemented into Skywind. I had already posted a mod release thread for Tanning Racks, but it is important that we come together as a team to configure crafting recipes and food bonuses to ensure that all is balanced.

Videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOzrO95Jf7g

Alchemy

Regarding alchemy, it would be a good idea to re-implement Morrowind's portable alchemy objects, which apparently can be done with a dummy furniture marker in an inaccessible cell that is activated with a script. I am not exactly sure how to go about doing this, so feel free to contribute if you know what to do.

Cooking

I have just begun replacing some of the Skywind campfires that have a wooden cooking spit on them with a new furniture marker that rigs the Skyrim cooking pot model to the Morrowind spit. By doing so, the player can now use them as they would with a normal Skyrim cooking spit.

 

 

 

Enchanting

For enchanting, I think a similar method as the alchemy section above could be used, but instead of being activated by an item in the player's inventory, it could be activated by dialog with an enchanter NPC as it was in Morrowind.

Tanning

Works like in Skyrim, as stated above, I made a post about this earlier, and it is available for download (although there are no recipes yet, they are coming in a separate esp that includes recipes for all different crafting fields).

 

Smithing

I am in the process of replacing the Morrowind Anvil models with custom furnature marker versions to make them usable.

 

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/14/2014 - 22:28
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Recipe Screens (Bonuses are

Recipe Screens (Bonuses are likely to change)

 

Should the Crab Meat and Skuttle and The Hound and Rat be moved to the Hearthfire Ovens? I could place retextured versions of them in places across various locations in Skywind (Also, the Dwemer cooking ranges could probably be used as well).

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Hmmm, scrambled kwama eggs,

Hmmm, scrambled kwama eggs, delicious :)

Perfect keep it up, as you say recipes can be changed and refined, but if you get the base of the concept done then another bonus to this project. Well done sir.

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Thanks, I will continue to

Thanks, I will continue to post updates, I'm currently making more recipes, bittergreen tea coming soon.

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good work i am missing a

good work i am missing a smelter in this list also this isnt maby the good topic for it but the ore deposits are the adet to skywind yet ?

also don't know howe many npc there are in skywind that gone get enchanting but i like if its more a exclusive mage thingie not like skyrim where enchanting tabels are every where

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In Morrowind, there were 23

In Morrowind, there were 23 Enchanter NPCs. Perhaps a unique looking enchanting station could also used in the mages guilds. Also, I just added a smelter section.

 

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Update: Bittergreen Tea

Update:

 

 

I also made better looking raw versions of the hound and rat meats to match the cooked ones.

Edit: More

 

 

 

 

 

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Are you gonna add in some

Are you gonna add in some armorer tables as well?

also I came up with an idea for the repair hammers. don't know if it would be a good idea or not though or if its even doable. What if we put in a check for the hammer each time you use the anvil. It could either give you a small smithing buff or it could be required to have one, and the better hammers just give you a small buff on top of it. could be implemented with the tongs and other such smithing items.

Like i said it was just an idea i don't know how plausible of an idea it is....

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That could work, but to be

That could work, but to be honest it's like there's not much point... On the other hand it could be that thing that makes people think "Damn, what a great attention to detail".

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Or you could make it like the

Or you could make it like the woodchopping block in skyrim where you have to have a blacksmith hammer to use the forge.

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what about u forget about the

what about u forget about the workbench and that other thing to inprove armor and weapons and use hammers every time u lv up blacksmit u can inprove your stuf whit  hammers and a dont knowe the proper english name knive sharpner 

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The workbench and grindstone

The workbench and grindstone will be covered under the smithing section. Also, I could make it require a hammer, but should that be optional (since it isn't apart of Skyrim's crafting system)? 

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I have a pretty big load of

I have a pretty big load of ideas involving weapon and armour crafting for Skywind. I really wouldn't like to see it done as it is in Skyrim. Smithing ruined the game - it took away the joy of exploring and finding good loot since we were always able to make better, and it often led to items so overpowered that they would break balance of the game. Let alone the lore aspects, like crafting Daedric or Dwarven equipment that should either be a great secret to reveal or not possible at all.

 

1. Durability.

I have no idea if it's possible or how much scripting would it require to give an item a stat like that. I think thoguh, that making items indestructible really took away one important thing to consider. If done well (perhaps even better than in Morrowind) it can be so much more than just a constant annoyance to the player. One would have to plan his actions and what weapon to pick for what situation. Say, a glass sword is extremely sharp, but also fragile. Player would want to have something more durable to use most of the time and draw the glass one on special occasions.

This could also make armor and weapon improvements very useful and less gamebreaking. Smithing skill could allow us at some levels to improve weapon's or armour's durability so that we can use it for longer without it breaking. Trying to fix an item that is beyond our skills could cause the durability to go up, but the max durability to go down permanently weakening it. That way it would take more planning instead of "buy 20 hammers and break them all until things are repaired". There has to be a reward for success and punishment for fail.

 

2. Crafting

In Skyrim all it takes to craft certain items is to just get a perk. That way you can learn how to craft the legendary Daedric armor by simply mass producing iron daggers. That's a big no-no. What I'd rather have is a necessity to "collect lore" after you get a perk. It could be done as a quest. After you get the perk you get a quest "I feel ready now to experiment with dwarven metal" - but in order to do that, you would have to collect say 5 pieces of Dwemer craft lore. It cold be many different things, like talking to an expert on Dwemer (Yagrum Bagarn!), reading a book on the topic  or uncovering that secret in some other way. It should go for every type of armour or weapons, and the higher you go the harder it would get, with Daedric being extremely painful (and making it would as well require much more than ebony and Daedra heart).

 

Maybe someone will actually read this wall of text, who knows :D All in all it's just a suggestion. I have no idea how one could implement those things in the game - I could only help with the design of how it should work in detail.

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brrr dragomir that plan sound

brrr dragomir that plan sound way to big and i think the only way thats gone happen is when u gone do it your self

also it sound like to much work to get the blacksmith skill whit that

 

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There are certainly good

There are certainly good ideas in that post, I think that your ideas on durability are something suited for its own topic. Regarding the Dwemer armor crafting, What about using the various dwemer plans/schematics in Morrowind already? What if the player could find rare smematics papers deep in Dwemer ruins that detail plans on how to make Vvardenfel style Dwemer armor? It would still require the Dwarven smithing perk with it of course, but would help to make it more rare like you said. I'm not sure about asking Yagrum however, because that would probably result in him revealing the mystery behind the smelting of the Dwarven Metal alloy (without having to melt down dwemer clutter). No one knows what metals are used/how it is created except the dwemer.

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Update: New field of crafting

Update: New field of crafting - Tailoring

 

More info coming soon

 

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thats interesting. tho im not

thats interesting. tho im not sure how useful tailoring will be, i still find it incredibly cool.

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Everyone needs cloth pieces
Everyone needs cloth pieces for armour it to make cool robes and clothes, especially the robes part
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Cloaks. Everybody needs a

Cloaks. Everybody needs a cloak for the cold winter weather... wait a minute.. wrong game.

Cloaks. Everybody needs a cloak for covering their face from the ash blowing everywhere. Yeah, that's it.

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WIP Ashlander Loom: For now

WIP Ashlander Loom:

For now it uses the tanning rack animations, but eventually the knife used in the animation will be replaced with a Weaving Shuttle (http://static0.jadedpixel.com/s/files/1/0007/4192/files/WeavingShuttle.jpg.)

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That umm texture needs a bit

That umm texture needs a bit of work. =p

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iceflame542 wrote: There are

iceflame542 wrote:

There are certainly good ideas in that post, I think that your ideas on durability are something suited for its own topic. Regarding the Dwemer armor crafting, What about using the various dwemer plans/schematics in Morrowind already? What if the player could find rare smematics papers deep in Dwemer ruins that detail plans on how to make Vvardenfel style Dwemer armor? It would still require the Dwarven smithing perk with it of course, but would help to make it more rare like you said. I'm not sure about asking Yagrum however, because that would probably result in him revealing the mystery behind the smelting of the Dwarven Metal alloy (without having to melt down dwemer clutter). No one knows what metals are used/how it is created except the dwemer.

 

Actually I'm thinking about making two different variants of dwemer armour, one that looks a lot like the original from Morrowind and is basically just centurion pieces tied together (maybe even more weathered and improvised), and another one that is an actual armor that was worn by the dwemer. First one would be easy to make and wouldn't require secret lore knowledge, while the second one would.

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If you are thinking about

If you are thinking about portable crafting options you might get some inspiration from mods like frostfall, say for example a power that lets you choose a crafting option for alchemy which you can only carry out if you have an alembic in your inventory. Or a script that lets you place said item where ever you choose when you drop it?

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looking really good mate!

looking really good mate! gonna install install it now and Im gonna craft my ass off!

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Minor update, I know I

Minor update, I know I haven't posted anything in a while but I've been kind of busy, I have not left the project, however. Anyway, I thought that before I add in new crafting features (tailoring), I should go back and finish what I already started first. So, I'm adding in more locations for the cooking spit, so that they can be found more easily at Ashlander camps and other places throughout Morrowind.

Also, 

 

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Thats awesome news man

Thats awesome news man :D

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Just finished adding

Just finished adding collision and placed 64 of the new cooking spits to replace the old, unusable ones.

Download:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1AAbtK1zezEamM3cjRhcGt4czQ...

Also, I changed the texture to reflect the new ingredients instead of using Skyrim's orange stew texture

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Minor update for

Minor update for recipes:

I will add cooked hackle leaves and whatever other lore friendly recipes I can think of and then move on (at least for now) to armor and weapons.

"The staple is the saltrice grain, usually eaten as a cooked porridge mixed with scuttle (a cheese-like food from giant domesticated beetles). Hackle-lo (a hardy succulent edible leafy green) is a reliable year-round vegetable, eaten cooked or raw"

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nice work iceflame, this

nice work iceflame, this keeps getting better and better :)

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Smithing complete, replaced

Smithing complete, replaced the static anvils with functional ones:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1AAbtK1zezEZFBBSTY5QU9NbVk...

 

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Here's all the crafting

Here's all the crafting recipes made thus far:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1AAbtK1zezEWjZMZTFnb2FneGM...

I will continue to work on adding new ones with a seperate esp after the next Skywind release

 

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I may be hijacking this

I may be hijacking this thread but to me this seems related: What to do about the ingredients that need to become powdered? I see we have diamond dust, ebony dust, etc. How does somebody create this? I don't think they are in the leveled lists as items to find. Are there plans to keep these or are they some sort of placeholder?

I ask because I'm thinking you need to craft these at the anvil to create the powders. But, how many do you get per component that gets used? One for one? 2 diamond powders per gem? I can go ahead and create a little mod to build this but I didn't know if anyone else was already working on it.

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@iceflame542 Absolutely love

@iceflame542 Absolutely love everything you've got going here, especially the tailoring. Really good stuff!

 

Looks like there was discussion on the mortar/pestle, alembic, etc...

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I think it's assumed that you
I think it's assumed that you powder them in your morter and pestle during bthe potion-making process. Then again, in Skyrim gems and ores Arte considered miscilanious goods rather than alchemy ingredients, so that may be a good idea. Also: in regards to Red or an Cooking Secrets, you should only get the recipes if you read the book (if that's possible).
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Well, being able to craft

Well, being able to craft daedric armor should be extremely hard.

Maybe we could put the 'lore' bits/books/logs/whatever in areas with extremely hard enemies and harsh terrains.
Maybe one 'lore' piece per region?
Maybe requiring certain requirement of skills? Performing rituals to bind the daedric blood to the metal?

Having to actually learn how to craft stuff is actually a damn good idea instead of shitting out Iron Daggers(or dwarven bows since daggers was patched).

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From WIP-Kurasaki-Armor Drago

From WIP-Kurasaki-Armor

Dragomir wrote:

Daedric gear will be craftable only after completeing really difficult quests, that will incorporate finding long lost pieces of lore about the crafting of that armour, and crafting it will require Daedric Rituals (binding Daedra's soul and forging it into the ebony). Of course all that only avaliable after getting to smithing level 100, so it will be an extreme toil to craft one, pretty much as hard as finding all the pieces.

And I also don't think we should be able to skin Dremora. Dremora armour is a product of their own bodies, permanently attached to it, that is except for Dremora Lords who can wear real Daedric Armour which would also make them extremely tough.

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If you can only create

If you can only create daedric armor with a skill of 100, then that leads to the question of how are you going to reach that level? We don't have any ore veins yet and none of the blacksmiths sell components. Since this is all new to the TES3 world, it will all have to be added at some point. Also, a Smithing skill of 100 is needed for unlocking the use of dragon bones/scales. I guess those are worthless here. So maybe a Perk adjustment to the Smithing skill is going to be needed. Maybe by just moving Daedric from 90 to 100.

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I read dragomir's post and i

I read dragomir's post and i agree with his 2nd point (dura is smth that needs it's own topic for various reasons). 

In Skyrim all it takes to craft certain items is to just get a perk. That way you can learn how to craft the legendary Daedric armor by simply mass producing iron daggers. That's a big no-no. What I'd rather have is a necessity to "collect lore" after you get a perk. It could be done as a quest. After you get the perk you get a quest "I feel ready now to experiment with dwarven metal" - but in order to do that, you would have to collect say 5 pieces of Dwemer craft lore. It cold be many different things, like talking to an expert on Dwemer (Yagrum Bagarn!), reading a book on the topic  or uncovering that secret in some other way. It should go for every type of armour or weapons, and the higher you go the harder it would get, with Daedric being extremely painful (and making it would as well require much more than ebony and Daedra heart).

[Issue - 1] Not be able to trade anything from one era to another no matter how you will make the transition quest. Fix: use a similar script to jail equipment chest that stores everything you own (ofc without deleting stolen stuff) on both sides. 

[Issue - 2] Exploiting the current Skyrim Smithing System. Basically we have to make the skill level means nothing, and even if we enter Morrowind with all perks and skill 100 it doesn't have to affect intended game experience. FIX: Make a script that makes all existing known recipes from vanilla and other mods invisible / non accessible the moment we leave Skyrim. Also use a script similar to what it is used in Cloths of Skyrim mode, i think. There you can access certain recipes only if you have a book in your inventory. Since such an approach is possible, for each individual weapon / armor item or armor set / weapon set we can make a recipe (similar with the recipes for potions - actual inventory items). The recipes can be pieces of papers, they can be written with lore or only have some general information, be in the in the form of book, a note or pergament, can be found in loot, bought from merchants, given as quest reward, you name it! Sky(wind) is the limit. 

@SBB64

We don't have any ore veins yet and none of the blacksmiths sell components. Since this is all new to the TES3 world, it will all have to be added at some point.

Just because their not set ingame this doesn't mean it will not be added later. Don't jump to conclusions, this is just an alpha version!

Also, a Smithing skill of 100 is needed for unlocking the use of dragon bones/scales. I guess those are worthless here. So maybe a Perk adjustment to the Smithing skill is going to be needed. Maybe by just moving Daedric from 90 to 100.

Possible FIX: leave the perk system as it is but just change the names (instead of Dragon Armor perk name it Deadric Smithing and put smth else instead of Deadric Smithing - smth unique to skyrim, for example). I am not sure how this is defined in CK or TESEDIT5 but i presume that you can change string information that does not act as referral for other game assets (like asset id might be). Since Morrowind Armors seem to have different ids from vanilla armors i guess we can set the "new" Morrowind Armors to appear in whatever smithing section we would like. The drawback is that this will be a permanent change. 

Other Suggestions: remove the Fortify Enchanting, Fortity Smithing and Fortify Alchemy effects from Morrowind ingredients, potions (basically remove potions from loot and merchants) and enchantment list (have no idea how :-SS), or make the ingredients very hard to find.....

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@ last point - If that would

@ last point - If that would be part of the final solution, that could actually work great on dwemer - we want to create two versions of dwemer armour anyway. And for weapons we could actually use re-textured models we have - so they look like brand new ones.

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to much talk ceep it simpel

to much talk ceep it simpel man

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I have merged everything from

I have merged everything from this thread up to this point (cooking, smithing, recipes)

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There's some great stuff in

There's some great stuff in this thread. I found that smithing in Skyrim was way too easy, and some stuff just shouldn't be available for the player to make like Daedric and Dwemer items. I think making two sets of Dwemer armor is a great idea, one skillfully made by Dwemer smiths and only found by the player, the other sort of a patchwork armor made of miscellaneous Dwemer objects. That would give Dwemer items a use beyond just selling them (armor requires 10 dwemer cogs, 20 scrap metal, etc.) and give players more of an incentive to collect Dwemer items.

If anyone remembers Dremora weapons in Oblivion, it looked very similar to Daedric items, with lower stats. Perhaps the player could create these instead of Daedric items? Visually they could look simpler since they're just a mock version than their Daedric counterparts, but can still be a high-tier weapon/armor set.

One thing I think is necessary though, is that crafting should be much more difficult than it is in Skyrim. It should take time to gather all of the supplies necessary to craft the highest-tier armors, schematics need to be found in high-level dungeons or dropped from high-level enemies, and high skill level should be required. It's gotta be rewarding, not easy, if you know what I mean.

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Update:

Update:

I was working on a script for a while, and with the help of Thermocrius, it now works. Recipes can now be added by reading books or schematics. So far this applies to Redoran Cooking secrets, and reading it will add the "Crab Meat and Scuttle" and "The Hound and Rat" recipes to the list when cooking, and it displays a message to let the player know. So now this can be applied to anything from Dwemer armor schematics, to books on tailoring to learn how to make higher tiers of clothing other than common, etc.

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One question: This may be

One question: This may be stupid, but will the crafting menu lists be completely separate from Skyrim/the rest of the game? I hope so.

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Yeah, it's not implemented
Yeah, it's not implemented yet but I plan on making it so that Skywind's recipes do not show up unless you start a game in Skywind so that they do not show up in a normal Skyrim game. I could do the same for Skyrim's recipes to avoid them showing up in Skywind, but that would involve editing Skyrim, and thus would not be merged with the main Skywind master. However, they are separate from Skyrim's.  
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What about that mod that's

What about that mod that's supposedly in development that will let you use an Elder Scroll to travel between the two provinces? Could that potentially activate/deactivate one set of crafting lists and activate/deactivate the other?

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Once one is released, I can

Once one is released, I can add that in.

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Awesome. If I can do any

Awesome. If I can do any generic CK work, let me know.

bluesausage
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I don't see a reason why the
I don't see a reason why the player couldnt recreate dwemer smithing. Its not like there aren't plenty of example out there to study. And asside from the special metal they made, it was still crafted with normal, though advanced, smithing methods. Its the enchantments, and the more unique weapons and armor that were special.
iceflame542
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I have to see what the

I have to see what the general consensus is, but I agree with you. Considering the player-craftible variant of Dwemer armor wasn't actually made by the Dwemer, but just uses the metal, it wouldn't make much logical sense to find schematics for it in their ruins. However, in regards to gameplay balance, there needs to be some way to make it more difficult to achieve besides just unlocking the perk. 

Twisted Logic
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I like the idea of craftable,

I like the idea of craftable, but less-powerful Dwemer armor made from random bits of Dwemer clutter similar to how it looked in Morrowind, then a separate set (possibly unique?) set of ACTUAL Dwemer armor based on Dragomir's concept art that v is significantly more powerful.

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