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TtoiCG
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[RELz] Golden Saint

Hi everybody!  My first post here...I just wanna say that I'm honored to have the chance to work on this project :) Sorry if my english isn't perfect, but I'll do my best to be as clear as possible!   My assignment, as the thread's title sugest, is the Golden Saint. I changed several time my design for this character, and what I'm posting here is the last one that i choose to use.     Of course a lot of details will be added during the sculpting process in ZBrush, this is just a blockout to study character's forms and siluette.   For me the overall shapes are interesting but I'm open to any feedback :)  

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/15/2014 - 01:37
Smerk
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Looks amazing TtoiCG  really

Looks amazing TtoiCG  really good start but I think the golden saints need a little bit bigger breast and the shoulder pads seam a little to big. But other then that it looks really good.

 

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I think the breasts should be

I think the breasts should be a bit bigger. Daedra's probably have perfect bodies. They should have more features/curves but no extreme muscles. (no six-pack)

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I agree with Smerk, it looks

I agree with Smerk, it looks fantastic but the bust looks strange when compared to the hips.

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Thanks guys for feedbacks
Thanks guys for feedbacks :)   I'll work on the breast area for now!    Make the breast bigger is always a pleasure XD
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its always the breasts, ay

its always the breasts, ay fellas?

Only crit now is to check u dont make it just an altmer in gold armour.
Blur the line between where armour ends and flesh begins. She's not normal flesh.

everything looks good so far

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I have to agree with Ravanna.

I have to agree with Ravanna. The armor should feel more like it's a part of her. Try having the plates follow sections of the body, like the abs and such. Think of it like our current daedra armor design, where the armor is reminiscent of the body's muscles, but i more elegant and elf-ish than demoninc and scary.

I think I'll puit together a concept tonight for this.

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I know it's far off, but I

I know it's far off, but I think you should use the Oblivion version of Sheogorath's eyes for her.

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120113034723/eldersc...

http://teso.trewa.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/SI-npc-Gold...

I kinda didn't like the direction Morrowind went with the eyes, and Skyrim copied it.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/17172/966150-...

http://static1.nexusmods.com/15/mods/110/images/28218-1-1355...

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Some changes! Breast should
Some changes! Breast should be fixed now  
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I actually disagree with the

I actually disagree with the large breast sentiment, personally. They are bred to be warriors and large breasts would kind of get in the way during combat; leave the breasts for the Dark Seducers, as it's kind of part of the job for them. I definitely agree that the armor should be more a part of her, though.

EDIT: Never mind. I was afraid they'd be the size of watermelons or something. I see you kept it tasteful, though. :P

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She is a warrior...and that's
She is a warrior...and that's why i have kept the breast small, but to a closer look the relation between breast and hips was weird. Now I think is more balanced and the boobs size is still reasonable XD   Regardin the armor:   I studied the character and i based my design on the oblivion version because I didn't like how she looks in morrowind.   But from the pics that I have on my pc (and in my mind ^^) the armor looks like common armor, nothing special or organic. The armor have only a some kind of scale pattern that can remind organic stuff, the rest is very standard  :)  
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Here is a good Morrowind

Here is a good Morrowind reference for the Golden Saint; http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/17172/966150-morrowind_large_goldensaint_1.jpg

 

They kind of remind me of the Valkyries or Golden-clad Amazons. Regarding the breast argument, I actually think it's interesting how busty they were in Morrowind compared to what we want to make them now - but I don't mind this change personally as I think there'll be plenty of bust to tackle with the Winged Twilights anyway. 

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Jors is making a design based

Jors is making a design based around the Morrowind Golden Saint, and I really feel we should go with a much more Morrowind'ish look. Sure, everyone likes boobs and bikini armours (maybe with an exception of me :P), but we need her to fit in the world, not just "look cool".

Hopefully we'll be able to reach some kind of compromise on that ;) Remember, they are servants of Shogorath. Need to look crazy and exotic, THEN sexy, not the other way around.

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Ravanna wrote: its always the

Ravanna wrote:

its always the breasts, ay fellas?

You're right Ravanna! We should enhance the ass instead.

Looks too much like oblivion, too little like morrowind BTW.

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skyrim was lazy and didnt

skyrim was lazy and didnt make daedric eyes somthing the gold siant must have  for the rest i cant think of anything gold siants are pretty boring actuly when u think about it 

maby some artsie lines ad curls on the armor that go on like tattos but like daedric in some way 

i do like the golden chianmail the got in oblivion maby somthing to cover up the places u see the skin to make it more efficient as armor but to ceep it more woman like

for the rest go mad thats what the maker of the golden saints is

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Cor Angars wrote: We should

Cor Angars wrote:

We should enhance the ass instead.

But, the bust is a must! :P

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Actually in terms of

Actually in terms of breast-hip relation the old version wasn't as bad as you might think -- enough women naturally have wider hips than breasts, sometimes by a wide margin. And anyone strong enough to run around in a metal suit and crack your head open with an axe is going to be pretty heavily muscled (unless daedra can break the laws of physics while on Nirn, simply saying 'they're daedra!' isn't going to cut it).

That said, the new version is very good and way better than Morrowind's version. Keep up the great work! I quite like the pauldrons.

 

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In that case, shouldn't they

In that case, shouldn't they have pushup armor or sport bras or something to make them more agile/mobile?

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I prefer the new version than
I prefer the new version than the morrowind one, but as Dragomir said we need her to fit in the world, not just "look cool"!    Today I'll model a new version :) Is always good to have more options ^^    When the final design will be approved I'll speed up the modeling process :)
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I was reading the discussion,

I was reading the discussion, and the first thing that came to mind was the CNHF body replacer. It's a body for a warrior, but not overly masculine like some exaggerated weight-lifter bodies, it looks strong with wider shoulders and hips, smaller breast, but it still looks pretty. Perfect body for a breed of warriors. I don't think you should just fully copy it, but it could be an inspiration.

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A new sketch :) 

A new sketch :) 

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awesome this just screams

awesome :) this just screams golden saint from miles away :)

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I like the lunar detail on

I like the lunar detail on the collar and some of the plate detail on the boots and gloves especially. I'm not too fond of the way the shoulder pads are shaped however. They look really out of place with the rest of the design - they were far less obstructive or elaborate in Morrowind, and considering how form-fitting the rest of the attire is it ends up looking jarring. Overall I think the Saint should be more appropriately armored. There are ways to feminize battle gear while not blatantly sexualizing them. 

 

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I like the direction this is

I like the direction this is going~

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don't listen to Taj it looks

don't listen to Taj it looks awesome TtoiCG keep up the good work.

 

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I agree with Taj, but I am

I agree with Taj, but I am not a modeler, nor do I really know what exactly is involved in the modeling process., so do as thou wilt. :P

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I love the new version,
I love the new version, although I do thing the shoulder pads need some cutting down, make em form fitting and elegant like the rest of the armour! Wonderful job keep it up!
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Thanks guys   The
Thanks guys :)   The shoulder pads are only a "copy and paste" from the previous concept ^^   I didn't have enough time to make a new pair XD for sure I'll change it tomorrow!   I still want to explore this character to find the right fit.
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I must have been playing too

I must have been playing too much Dragon Age: Origins because those massive pauldrons didn't stick out to me until other people brought it up :P

Be warned: armour boobs are a pet peeve of mine, so I'm naturally inclined to push against a design with overt armour boobs. As of Oblivion, Aureals wear heavy armour. Could you bulk up the current armour a bit? Please tell me you're going to cover her butt crack (I know you're still roughing it out) because anything that tight is simply painful to wear and hampers movement.

What I do like is the raised edges on the breastplate, wrist guards etc. Very Aureal. Elegant curved edges on the breastplate are a good way of connoting that this is a woman's armour without needing armour boobs or skin tight armour.

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Can I throw in something

Can I throw in something completely different for the approach? xD I like this but since I don`t have so much time today for my own stuff I thought I look around the forums and see if I can add some input:

What always stood out for me with the Golden Saints was their strength in battle, skilled with whatever weapon they might have. Like amazons (including a matriarchal system) and very well trained in battle. Sadly their physique never really reflects this, probably due to their "seductive" facet and that it might be a bit uncomfortable for some if a women is "build". Now that aside, why not play with a stronger physique where the skin shows through the armor?

I am not saying she should look like a bodybuilder, but when it comes down to brute strength, I always found lifters very interesting. Thick legs, muscular back and shoulders and already the silhouette looks like she can push an unaware warrior over without being "not-sexy". ( http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-CcAnsoUqOQ/TAC4O9fS8tI/AAAAAAAACl... , http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sites/default/files/images/... and here is a drawing I made a while ago for a defunct project (nsfw): http://sethnemo.deviantart.com/art/Recent-Sketches-363179302 )

could be interesting in two ways even: the armor curves a bit more around her to put emphasize on hips, cleavege and whatnot, while the areas where the skin is actually showing hint towards something much more dangerous.

This would render their armor to something secondary though. So I can totally understand if pumping her up to a barbell deathqueen is a no go.

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What always stood out for me

What always stood out for me with the Golden Saints was their strength in battle, skilled with whatever weapon they might have. Like amazons (including a matriarchal system) and very well trained in battle. Sadly their physique never really reflects this, probably due to their "seductive" facet and that it might be a bit uncomfortable for some if a women is "build". Now that aside, why not play with a stronger physique where the skin shows through the armor?

...

could be interesting in two ways even: the armor curves a bit more around her to put emphasize on hips, cleavege and whatnot, while the areas where the skin is actually showing hint towards something much more dangerous.

You could be on to something, DavidS. I keep forgetting, but a daedra's armour grows out of their skin which throws the usual rules of armour out the window. At the very least her exposed back can be more muscled like that pic you linked.

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one thing you all seem to

one thing you all seem to forget is that this is an animated golden statue, better known as a golem, so i would think no normal laws of physics would apply to this creature.

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OK, I have another bad idea.

OK, I have another bad idea. It's based on that whole armor is growing from their skin. I know it is not enough sexy, actually it's not sexy at all, but what if that armor looked little like this? China Miévilles world Bas-Lag.

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I must say, the current model

I must say, the current model does look a little feeble physically. She should look more muscular than this. Not like a female bodybuilder - but certainly more physically intimidating than she is currently.

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good ideas but the original

good ideas but the original morrowind golden saint was pretty much a metal golem, animated magically. It doesnt need to be hench. It's not alive.

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Hm, if we are talking

Hm, if we are talking strictly Morrowind they should look more like statues, true. In Shivering Isles they were more of an amazonian warrior caste than Golems though, so dunno what applies here. And a statue can still have some brawn ;) the greeks loved to do that with their stuff.

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Yep golem...You can even see

Yep golem...You can even see what appears to be oxidization on the saint. 

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I think a balance would be

I think a balance would be good, as in a fully sentient race, like in Shivering Isles, but with metal in place of skin, like in Morrowind.

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eloth wrote: one thing you

eloth wrote:

one thing you all seem to forget is that this is an animated golden statue, better known as a golem, so i would think no normal laws of physics would apply to this creature.

I hate to do this, especially here and to eloth of all people, but may I see your source for that? All lore I know of states that golden saints (auriels) are daedra and, thus, biological creatures.
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Being a golem would

Being a golem would definitely free the Aureal from most laws of physics (but top heavy is still top heavy -- not that TtoiCG's model has this problem). If the Aureal's skin is metal just like her armour, you could blend where skin ends and where armour begins.

I agree with iceflame542 for balancing Morrowind/SI versions.

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@twistedlogic: Where the lore

@twistedlogic:

Where the lore ends, we take over with logic and common sense ;) besides, the golden saint sound fx were metallic in character.

 

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That explains those sound

That explains those sound effects! I always wondered where they came from and what they were.

OT, but what does this mean for the Mazken (if they're ever going to make an appearance in Skywind)?

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I'd say 'yes' to blurring the

I'd say 'yes' to blurring the line between metal and biologic.  And I personally liked how the 'winged helmet' of the Morrowind golden saints seemed to blend with their 'hair'.  That this would not be a garment or uniform, but part of their actual body would set them as truly alien.  Metal to the spriggan's wood, or the dreugh's chitin.

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I'm fine with them having
I'm fine with them having natural metallic armor, but they most certainly aren't golems, the lore is very clear on that. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Saints_and_Seducers
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Ook guys XD what i need now
Ook guys XD what i need now is a precise guideline to follow! everybody have different ideas regarding GS...but if we not reach a deal, I'll keep changing her forever XD   1- Golem or not golem? that's the problem XD   2- angelic figure/elegant ( http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Saints_and_Seducers ) or more muscular and physically intimidating ?   From what i can see in Morrowind she is like a golden creature, but the armor is something that is separate from her..you can see it from the pushup breast and from the leather pants under the legs plate (also in Oblivion she is wearing an armor but she looks like more as a human with a golden skin color).   So do you want her like a big golden chunk or like a golden creature wearing a golden armor?    This is the concept made by Jors that we can use if we want to make her as a golem   https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-IKjgc_TYEgcVRnLV96UURna2s/edit  
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I think Jors' concept

I think Jors' concept incorporates a lot of elements from the original Morrowind as well as what was mentioned in the brainstorm we had here. I like the idea of the Golden Saints being living metal, as opposed to animated constructs (golem). Since lore dictates it, they should definitely look benevolent and angelic as opposed to muscular and obviously fierce. You are correct that Morrowind (and Oblivion) makes it look like they are wearing armor as opposed to having it attached to their skin.

 

Ideally I think it would be nice to follow Jors' concept except make the armor worn as opposed to part of them. The detailing on the drawing is great, it would be nice if we could keep it. Nothing is stopping Sheorogath's golden dolls from dressing as they please even if their skin would be as hard as the armor they wore ;) 

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This concept is not ready, I

This concept is not ready, I want complete it today-tomorrow. I can remake something if it need, but first I'll copmlete current version.

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This is my view of the Golden

This is my view of the Golden Saints:

  • Golden Saints are Daedra, therefore their armor is part of their bodies and should look like it grew naturally with them
  • Their skin has a metallic appearance like burnished gold, but they are not animated statues or golems
  • They are fearsome warriors, so a degree of physical brawn would make sense and look fitting (something like this)
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-I have been doing a little

-I have been doing a little research and in this artical it specifically says they are humanoids and wear the armor instead of growing it.

-second point- is that not all daedra grow armor and in this case the daedra does not look like it has grown armor, and if you look at the golden saint in morrowind closely you can see a rim in the texture of the armor.

-third point- if you look at the oblivion golden saints (in which the creaters of the game are the creaters of morrowind, and there for the world) it is obvious that the golden saints wear there armor not grow it.

so as you can see almost all counts state they are wearing there armor and not growing it.

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I would say daedra can have

I would say daedra can have any sort of appearance we can dream up. To say they follow any hard fast rules is to misunderstand the entire nature of daedra. And I don't think I've seen anywhere that says they must grow their armor from their bodies.

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Golden Saint - WIP. helmet's

Golden Saint - WIP. helmet's variants  and colors  will be later.

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