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Suade
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Oh yea, that's another reason

Oh yea, that's another reason why he should convert if he wants, DLC! So we can actually get SI converted. Only if you're up for it Zilav, that would be so awesome. If we can get a new master for Oblivion too, that does put us ahead quite a bit.

Mehh
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I thought Skyblivion already

I thought Skyblivion already had SI.

Suade
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I don't think it does? I'll

I don't think it does? I'll have to check now.

But I think it would be easier for us in the long run if we use the same type of converted master from our Skywind project with Skyblivion. Of course who am I to say. I just try to help where I can :) 

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Yup, the Shivering Isles is

Yup, the Shivering Isles is integrated into from the Skyblivion plug-in, just like it was in the Oblivion.ESM. I think it’s a good idea to extracted the Shivering Isles from the Skyblivion plug-in. making this a stand alone mod will lift weight from the Skyblivion plug-in.

Suade
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You mean as a separate esm?

Yea, that might help! I wanted to hear what Clint thinks about re converting the oblivion master.

 

Edit: Hmm I can't even load the oblivion_sk.esm in the creation kit, it just stops working when I load it. 

Mehh
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Heh doing something like that

Heh doing something like that with Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon could have probably removed some of the stress from the Morrowind master.

Suade
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Just checked, SI is there and

Just checked, SI is there and has a lot of the zany colorful plants that were in Oblivion (which surprised me that the converter got that), however the main city and palace are not there. Cow'ing to them warps me to a field of transparent hills and water. Just thought I'd let you guys know :) 

It still looks nice for what it's worth:

It would be a good idea to make the Oblivion DLC's a separate plugin if we are converting them again. 

eloth
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i found out about my

i found out about my problems, it was the new havok misc meshes i made, strange they crash with this master and not the old one.

 

Iniquity
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eloth wrote: i found out

eloth wrote:

i found out about my problems, it was the new havok misc meshes i made, strange they crash with this master and not the old one.

 

they crash with the old one for me(

Iniquity
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Ive written here, but i dont

Ive written here, but i dont remember where) zilav is it possible to change all path into meshes/skywind/ and textures/skywind ?

Mehh
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Iniquity wrote: eloth

Iniquity wrote:

eloth wrote:

i found out about my problems, it was the new havok misc meshes i made, strange they crash with this master and not the old one.

 

they crash with the old one for me(


Same here. It crashed on the old master for me too. I was actually about to bring that up about your issue. Because mentioned you kept crashing in Balmora, that's exactly what your havoked misc items did to me.
eloth
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i think i can narrow it down

i think i can narrow it down and find the problem mesh, because in other cells cups and bottles work very well.

Iniquity
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zilav can u

zilav can u use http://goo.gl/ in first link?) it is help to get statistics about clicking on links)

Mehh
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eloth wrote:i think i can

eloth wrote:

i think i can narrow it down and find the problem mesh, because in other cells cups and bottles work very well.


Yeah, I was about to go to Balmora and add your meshes little by little and see which one crashes me. I see the meshes are named different now than the meshes in my folder lol.
zilav
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@Iniquity Paths can be

@Iniquity

Paths can be changed, but meshes must be updated first.

If you want some downloads tracking, rehost it anywhere you want. I don't care what you do with it.

Bonus!!!

I've made a patch for Climates Of Tamriel, updated first post. Grab while its hot!

 

Iniquity
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zilav, what do u mean about

zilav, what do u mean about meshes? How should they be updated?

I love google drive and i dont want to rehost it)

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Meshes have path to textures

Meshes have path to textures inside them, you can't move textures before updating meshes.

Iniquity
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Ok, i will do it

Ok, i will do it or not. hm ill try.

Mehh
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eloth wrote:i think i can

eloth wrote:

i think i can narrow it down and find the problem mesh, because in other cells cups and bottles work very well.


Well I've been trying to narrow down your broken mesh, and learned that the censes office lags like hell with your bottles, and I think I found one of the culprits.
http://i.imgur.com/Pj2N6.jpg
And yeah, there is clutter on both of them normally.

EDIT: I think I found the buggy mesh. I cannot load wrld morrowind -5 -5 with NBgoblet03.nif

Also when entering buildings with havok clutter, they fall all over the place and kill your frames. Sometimes the interior won't even load, and you'll sit there with an eternal loading screen.
Iniquity
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strange... this meshes isnt

strange... this meshes isnt used by masterfile any more:

 

clutter\books\folio02.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu01.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu02.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu03.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu04.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu05.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu06.nif morro\f\furnucushionuroundu07.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu01.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu02.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu03.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu04.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu05.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu06.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu07.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu08.nif morro\f\furnucushionusquareu09.nif morro\i\inulavau1024u01.nif morro\i\inulavau256a.nif morro\x\exugondolau01.nif
ironman12345
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Iniquity,The round and square

Iniquity,The round and square cushions were in a plugin,they were not merged to the original master.the plugin had to be ticked.

But have not got a clue how they got into the new master file.?

I was going to merge a lot of the remaining esp`s that guys had made here,but did not get a chance,due to changing masters.

The lava was also updated in an esp,in fact there was a lot of esp`s that were used before the change that will need re-using if possible.

That is what I mean`t about going back about 6 months.

If the new master needs a stripped down skyrim.esm to allow editing and to get rid of the array errors,then I quess I could have done that to the original master,but at that time I did not know it could be done that way and also did not know that the CK had those size limits.

In fact I am beginning to think that the original master was not as messed up as we thought.?

 

 

Iniquity
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hmm, strange. And what about

hmm, strange. And what about the NPCs?

ironman12345
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Do you mean,why were we

Do you mean,why were we having problems originally with NPC`s appearing in the editor.?

I have all of the original files and esp`s on my HDD and in storage,and am seriously considering doing some more work on the original V_10b master,because now [thanks to zilav].I now know how to stop the array errors during editing and etc.

But will hold off on this for a while,to see how this new method pans out.

 

Shadow
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About that mesh and texture

About that mesh and texture thing.  Macorn's utility should be able to find the moved textures, correct?

Also, Can we please do Meshes\Morrowind and Textures\Morrowind?  Not Skywind.

I'm already using those for the weapons mod, and it is so much more future proof.

I like the idea about separating out Shivering Isles. Theoretically it could mean that you could buy SI, but not base Oblivion and still be able to play with it.  Though wouldn't that be fairly difficult?

Yeah, we should do a re-conversion of Oblivion though. Zilav's converter does the job much better than the Andoran converter.  But only if/when Zilav feels up to it of course.

Also, that would be awesome if you could get those working Zilav.  The NPC conversion thread is right over here.  Post number 470 has a good number of them by the looks of it.

Edit:  Ironman, actually that old master was still pretty messed up, even if we could have gotten Skyrim.esm as a master there were still many other problems.  You only have to open it up once in TESV Edit to see a whole laundry load of problems. Plus now it is A LOT easier to merge Morroblivion plugins (after they are converted), because this new master has the same Form ids as Morroblivion.

Edit2: Zilav said that he could change the form ids so our existing NPC plugins would work properly I believe.

Mehh
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Our new master is indeed

Our new master is indeed quite awesome. Also out of morbid curiousity I actually tried the stripped down Skyrim and the old master and it did indeed remove the array errors and allowed me to edit with Skyrim assests and the saves actually saved after closing the CK.

I just gotta say how much I really hate the CK, and it could have at least actually have warned us in a better way, so we could have been aware that it ran out of space.

As for the Morroblivion stuff, does this mean we can somehow convert their  updates too? Like the badly needed stair update?

ironman12345
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I understand Shadow,and want

I understand Shadow,and want this new master approach to work too,but what about the packaging and security,are we just going to package it all up [including the stripped skyrim.esm],or will we need to have some checks for morrowind,tribunal and bloodmoon being installed.?

 

Mehh
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I don't think you need a

I don't think you need a stripped down Skyrim.esm to play Skywind. And anyone helping with the project knows how to strip down their own master file them self, and if they don't, there is a file on the first post that links to a stripped down Skyrim.

Shadow
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Yeah, what Mehh said.  But we

Yeah, what Mehh said.  But we still could use some security.  Perhaps we could get your installer up and running with the master next week or something?

ironman12345
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Sorry,but I can`t use the

Sorry,but I can`t use the original installer because I am no longer actually putting the master files used into a package,that job will have to be done by the hoster of the new Skywind download.

Like I stated,this new approach is great!,but it needs to be user friendly,I do not think that the average Skyrim player is going to like having to swap out and in skyrim.esm versions,they will expect to be able to just use the CK and/or play the mod.

Ok pro modders will not mind,but the average user might just give SkyWind a miss.?

We had a lot of good press on some good sites,I for one would just like to keep it that way.

Darn! why is this just not sitting right with me,I hope it is just a bad feeling.

 

 

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The adverge player won't have

The average player won't have to swap out his/her Skyrim.esm to play Skywind. As for modders, we can just tell them to back up their Skyrim.esm, and download the stripped down Skyrim.esm along with Skywind.esm. It's really not that hard. If someone really is unable to put their main Skyrim.esm in another folder, while adding a temporary Skyrim.esm, well I don't think modding is a correct choice for them.

Shadow
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Besides, we would have to do

Besides, we would have to do that even if we went back to Morrowind_sk.esm.

Why can't you host the new Skywind.esm as well?  You were already doing a fine job of it.  We would then just send you updates to be merged.

I don't know what to tell you about that bad feeling though.  I don't have one, and the master looks to be very good and stable.  Hopefully it will just go away with time.

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The whole stripped down

The whole stripped down Skyrim isn't even a big deal, only modders have to do it, hell we can include a text pad to tell warn modders that they're required to do it.

The averge player won't have to worry about it, because Skywind can play with a non-stripped down Skyrim.esm just fine.

This shouldn't even be a worry. We have a stable master file for once, we can add Skyrim assest, Dawnguard assets, lol Hearthfire assets, and even Dragon born assets when the dlc is released. We should look on the bright side, not thinking about a stripped down file that the averge user won't even know about. Our master file is way more complete than our old one, much of it is fixed up, and working.

Iniquity
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http://www.mediafire.com/?vlt

http://www.mediafire.com/?vltkjbksnsq686h

classes.esp for skywind.esm )

ironman12345
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Ok all,you have convinced

Ok all,you have convinced me,I will put the installer back together and update my original download thread later with new details of what is in the new master and what gets merged.

But I still have a 300MB per file limit.

 

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About meshes and textures.

About meshes and textures. I've created a spreadsheet that we can use to rename all the meshes and textures to be much more user friendly. There is a bat file to copy textures to new structure.

Check out thread http://morroblivion.com/forums/skywind/skywind-development/3083 for details.

I've done the meshes, but not the textures yet. It took me several late nights to get that far!

I can also reproduce the scripts created by zilav to create the skywind.esp with the new mesh paths.

Once we are all happy with a new file structure then we can go about the business of converting things over.

Its possible that we can bundle a conversion tool together, so that users who have already downloaded Skywind, can run it without having to download everything again. It can produce a log file to show what meshes and textures that they are missing.

Mehh
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I'm not sure if this is that

I'm not sure if this is that big of a deal, but we also need to do the same to the sound effects. I actually added my Morrowind sound effects without changing any of the names, and a lot of them are named differently in the CK, and well, there are quite a bit of sound effects.

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ironman12345: just playing

ironman12345: just playing skywind with the new master and original skyrim.esm works just fine as was said here by Mehh. And about that 300MB limit per file, I don't think that it would be problem to just put installer in split rar or zip archive. That way you can make at the end when the mod is ready one big installer  that would also install meshes, textures and everything else needed, so it would be more user friendly than copying things from many archives.

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ironman12345 wrote:But I

ironman12345 wrote:

But I still have a 300MB per file limit.

I'm working on a fix for the upload limit so you can upload big files directly to our site.  It's a challenging issue to solve though.

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thermador, Thanks for the

thermador,

Thanks for the offer of being able to host the installer at this site,and there is no current problem with file size,so until you have fixed the upload limit fix,I will host it on my skydrive.

Thanks! again for the offer,and I guess it would be best to have the main download hosted at the mother site.:)

But no rush as it will take me a while to sort out the installer again and get some stuff merged to it.

When I can upload to our site will I need FTP details etc.?

 

Iniquity
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http://www.mediafire.com/?kww

http://www.mediafire.com/?kwwrc434vslcpf9

classes for skywind, again) the last link was broken(

Machine
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I'm back. Was having a

I'm back. Was having a problem with logging in, tried resetting my password and kept getting access denied.

Anyways, a big thank you to zilav. You did us a huge favor, we won't forget it. Btw, for those that don't know who zilav is, he is a programmer for the TES5Edit project. I figured if anyone could help us it would someone with knowledge on skyrim data records.

I loaded up skywind as directed and was quite pleased. This new master sits well with me.

I can't wait to get back on track here, but before we get back to work, we need to get an assessment on what's changed/missing/added in this esm and what we can salvage from previous work. We need to package the add-on esps since the first skywind esm was created, clean, modify, then reintegrate them in this new esm if possible. Ironman do you still have all the work pre-merges since version 1?

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Btw, I can't stress the clean

Btw, I can't stress the clean part enough. There was a lot of stuff being merged into the old master that shouldn't have been. Everyone that makes an esp must use TES5Edit to clean it before being send back and the person merging should do a once over as well.

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@Iniquity That classes.esp

@Iniquity

That classes.esp has more classes than morroblivion, not sure why. Are the new classes really needed?

Iniquity
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zilav, these classes the same

zilav, these classes the same with morrowind classes, i think they are more beuty than morroblvion.

Mehh
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I always thought the classes

I always thought the classes were for the correct stats.

Also I tried out your COT mod, and I think it's neat. I forgot how much better the lighting and sky is with it. Is there a way to get an ash storm? Red Mountain looks kinda odd without a red ash storm.

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You'd better ask those who

You'd better ask those who already did ash storm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D7O0d6yCwc

As for classes - they will only have a meaning if someone is willing to assign them to all npcs manually. On their own they mean nothing.

Iniquity
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we can take the path from our

we can take the path from our NPC's plugins.

Shadow
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Welcome back Machine! Yes, I

Welcome back Machine!

Yes, I couldn't agree more with you about the merging thing.  Every mod that is made for Skywind should be cleaned by the author, and then double checked by whoever will do the merging.  I was seriously shocked when I heard that the original doors.esp that was merged was about 10 mb, and was later cleaned to be something like 3 mb after all the dirty edits were removed.

About saving previous work:  This master uses different form ids, so much of the old stuff wouldn't work in our new master.  The quests you guys have completed should be good for the most part, but other .esp files (like the NPC files), would need to be fixed to use the new form ids.

Also, Dragonborn comes packaged with Ash Storms already... 

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Hey Shadow, I tried swapping

Hey Shadow,

I tried swapping master dependencies with one of my quest chain esp's. I then opened up in the CK and crashed.

I'm just going to start over. I'm sick of risky shortcuts. I'm going to rebuild the quest list first and merge them with the master, then I'll release it here.

After that's done, I'll probably do morrodefault dialogue and get that out of the way before I start redoing my quest lines.

digitalparanoid, you still lurking around the forums?

 

Shadow
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Wow, that seems like a lot of

Wow, that seems like a lot of work.  You could still reuse your scripts though right?  Or is that not worth it?  Anyway, I wish you luck.  I can't wait to really play through Morrowind in the Skyrim engine.

I'd try PMing Digitalparanoid.  I bet he'll come back pretty quick when he learns we have a stable master that is dependent on Skyrim.esm.

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