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zilav
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[WIPz] Skywind Reborn

Skywind Reborn v0.3

A total reconversion project of Morroblivion to Skyrim using TES4Edit and TES5Edit.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4rR0C-Bcx_JNVd0R0ZqLTZQUTQ

Loads and saves in CK!

Almost all errors were fixed.

Has water now in exteriors.

I'm using only meshes and textures packed by Iniquity, paths in esp are the same as in morroblivion, except eloth's ground textures that have 'landscape\' added.

Still quite a lot of missing textures and meshes. Entering interiors usually crashes the game, I think it is because of some meshes and furniture (it shows errors in EditorWarnings.txt when loading in CK). Maybe because of borked havok, object bounds are off for all objects in game (oblivion engine used only object radius), I don't know how to properly reassign them all in CK.

I've used a glazed cup as a placeholder for references from oblivion.esm, so if you see a cup - there was a replaced oblivion reference.

I've used dead pine tree as a replacer for trees from oblivion.esm, you'll see a lot of those.

I've used skeletons as a placeholder for spawning points, Skyrim can't use leveled lists LVLN directly in references REFR (you need to create a new NPC and use LVLN as a template), so I was forced to replace them.

!!!!! Working with Skywind in CK !!!!!

Due to a large size of Skywind.esm, Creation Kit can't load all of its records together with Skyrim.esm. This leads to "out of array handle" errors and random objects being removed from cells.

You need to download stripped down version of Skyrim.esm here (Skyrim Master link)

http://www.sureai.de/development/resources/?lang=en

It is from the authors of Nehrim conversion for Oblivion, and they most likely have the same problems with CK and large mods.

Before running CK replace skyrim.esm with this version, when starting the game restore the original back. Better to create a command file for that. If you are trying to load a saved game but it drops to desktop, you most likely forgot to restore the original master.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Addons

Patch for Climates Of Tamriel and Skywind (I used overcast weather template, tell me if you want a sunny one).

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4rR0C-Bcx_JX2ZSQTBCZEdwQkE

http://i.imgur.com/LmSHv.jpg

Edited by: thermador on 03/25/2013 - 15:51
leobloom
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YES BOI

YES BOI. Are you prepared to go back and fix the object references if someone gives you a list of corresponding formids?

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Yes I'll help with scripts in

Yes I'll help with scripts in TES5Edit.

Forgot to mention - all the formids (except newly created) are the same as in morroblivion. So you can open TES4Edit and TES5Edit side by side to compare or see what was the original value exactly.

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Wow, everything feels so much

Wow, everything feels so much more complete.

Also I like the world names changes, it sounds way better than and_wrldmorrowind, I just have to get used to not typing and_ =p Also nice, no need to re-make the doors or map markers thank god.

I noticed that a few places are gone like Ahemmusa camp and Wolverine hall.

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there is too much stuff

there is too much stuff missing here, one example is ahemussa camp cells are almost empty, same with ald daedroth :( there may be many more empty cells

edit: its because i ticked both skyrim.esm and skywind.esp but still

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Maybe those cells need some

Maybe those cells need some settings changed.

Also when I was resaving skywind.esp for the first time in CK, it logged several errors about incorrect cell land index or something like this, and file was reduced by 4Mb. Quite possible that those cells are corrupted in morroblivion from previous converter (mw to oblivion), but oblivion's engine tolerated it. Skyrim probably does not.

I don't know. Check those cells in TES5Edit.

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This looks Awesome!  Though I

This looks Awesome!  Though I hope that cell issue can be fixed.  Either way it is still better than morrowind_sk.esm.  That thing was so incomplete it wasn't even funny.

Hey, Zilav.  Now that your scripts have been created, do you think you could do the same for Oblivion?  Our oblivion_sk.esm is sure to be just as bad as Morrowind_sk.esm was.

Edit: Oh, and does this master have the ripped quests and scripts from Morrowind_sk.esm already contained in it?

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Maybe you can find a list of

Maybe you can find a list of the files that was contained in the 4mb file, and we can make sort of a new "Balmora patch" with it.

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Some observations:The

Some observations:

The problems with interiors definitely lie with the meshes, not the master.  In fact, it seems to be crashing less with this new master than with the old one.

There are only a few missing textures, and they were all changed by Eloth for the skywind master.  Do you think it would be too hard to fix these Eloth?

I haven't noticed any big gaping holes where settlements were supposed to be so far, so that problem probably isn't too prevalent.

We are going to need some new LOD, so I guess I better start up Oscape.

Also, how are we doing versions?  This is to big of a change to start at v11.  How about V 2.0 or something?

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The google docs link in the

The google docs link in the first post is ok but if I click on "download anyway" at the virus check screen it asks if I want to save it [Win7 Pro],but if use save or saveAs it does not download because it needs a filename.?

Google docs was a problem on WinXP but on Win7 it is a real pain.

 

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http://www.mediafire.com/?0ef

http://www.mediafire.com/?0ef5uv55ene9471

Here is a mediafire download link for anyone having issues with google docs.

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Thanks Mehh,that worked, 

Thanks Mehh,that worked,:)

 

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So this is the start of our

So this is the start of our new "master." (it's an esp?) So there is far less in game in this new master but it s far less errors so it will be much easier for us for now on?? 

If this is true, I guess it puts us back a bit in terms of progress, but it's much better for us in the end.

Either way Zilav, I'm so grateful. 

So no more Skwind.esm, just load skywind.esp? Do I need morrowind_sk.esm anymore? 

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Actually, I'm pretty sure

Actually, I'm pretty sure this one has a lot more information in it.  Sure a few things were lost (like water), but we at least gained back in other areas, plus this one has very few errors.

Nope it is just skywind.esp no other masters required.

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What kind of information?

What kind of information? Values and formids from Morroblivion?

Hey I'm not complaining! We just have to redo a lot of our work. I'm just confused as to why its an esp if this is the actual "release" of our new master.

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Okay, before when I added new

Okay, before when I added new objects to the world, it would create a duplicate world. This happened to me before when fixing up my old master, you can fix it by opening the master file in wrye bash, esmfying it, and rename it to Skywind.esm. I just hope I didn't blow up Seyda Neen again.
http://i.imgur.com/emXdi.jpg

Nope Seyda Neen is still there. I took a few random screen shots, I wish I could take more interior shots, but it crashes way too easy.

http://i.imgur.com/NCQF6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/swnt4.jpg
Interior

http://i.imgur.com/xpLg7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WxmFk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T08DV.jpg
SEE Seyda Neen is still there!

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Don't understand what you

Cant get this master to work, hold on, lemme see what im doing wrong here.

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You're not using the correct

You're not using the correct master file. There is no water, it's not and_wrldmorrowind, and doors work just fine. The new file has ambient sounds, Skyrim music playing, npcs, working books, working ingredients, weather, doors make sounds(still gotta correct the sound file names), lighting, and skeletons everywhere.

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I'm really stumped as to what

I'm really stumped as to what I'm doing wrong here. Deleted skwind.esm, loaded skywind.esp in launcher, type in cow and_wrld morrowind x x and it takes me to morrowind, and it is not this master, but i have skywind.esm unchecked and deleted! 

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What size is your master?

What size is your master?

Suade
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Skywind.esp is 63,441kb

Skywind.esp is 63,441kb

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You're not loading any of the

You're not loading any of the old plugins right?

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Like map markers, alchemy

Like map markers, alchemy effects, books? They're disabled, just still in the data folder. 

Do I need to keep morrowind_sk.esm in the data folder? I thought keeping it in here was the issue, so I took it out. But when I launch the game it crashes before it can reach the main menu.

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You have to delete or disable

You have to delete or disable Morrowind_sk.esm as well, not just skywind.esm

Edit: You just gave a case of Skyrim trying to load a mod without a master.  Check your plugins list again.  There should be at least one plugin with a master you don't have enabled.

Edit2: Yeah, and Mehh is right.  It is no longer And_wrldMorrowind.  Now it is just wrldMorrowind.

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Load only Skyrim and the new

Load only Skyrim and the new master file. There is no and_wrldmorrowind in the new master file. Type cow wrldmorrowind -5 -5

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I disabled it but even with

I disabled it but even with Skywind.esp loaded and Skwind.esm deleted it loads a morrowind with water, not like this master. If I delete morrowind_sk or move it to out of the folder it crashes after the bethesda logo.

How do you get to morrowind then if not and_wrldmorrowind?

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Um no offense.  But I just

Um no offense.  But I just told you exactly how to fix your problem.  Try reading my post more carefully.

Edit:  I answered both of your questions in my last post.  :)

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sorry didnt see you edit your

sorry didnt see you edit your post :) I just disabled everything except for skwind.esp in the launcher, and it works. Dunno what was trying to load it that I left on.

sorry for all the trouble :)

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Well you don't have to delete

Well you don't have to delete them if you don't want. Just make sure the old files aren't checked. Just load up Skyrim.esm and Skywind.esp.

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Oh man, I just took a stroll

Oh man, I just took a stroll through Dagoth Ur and the lighting.. :O the lighting is perfect. 

Also, yes all the npc's are there, but are they all there? We will still have to edit their values in the CK? Or just their appearance?

Sorry for the noobish questions :P Just trying to understand!

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Same as it ever was,

Same as it ever was, unfortunately. Time would be much better spent building and improving conversion tools that can read and write TESIII/TESIV/TESV .nif . dds .esp and .esm file formats. Measure twice, cut once. Ounce of prevention, pound of cure. Etc. You guys are repeating all of the mistakes we made with Morroblivion. Save yourself five years of work and BUILD THE CONVERTER FIRST. Sorry to be Captain Buzzkill but seriously, learn from our mistakes.

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Actually I'm wondering

Actually I'm wondering something.  We got a lot of good faces from that thread.  Is there any way to just copy that over? Like by relocating the FaceGeometry and FaceTint folders to be inside the Skywind.esm folders instead of the Morrowind_sk.esm folders?  Or is there too much information saved directly in the .esps?

I agree with you completely Thermador, though I'm pretty sure most of us have little to no experience with any sort of programming.  What we need are some really good dedicated programmers to help us.  I'm just taking what was given to us and trying to make it better.

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If I recall we can use the

If I recall we can use the Skywind npcs we've made already.

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Under the character gen parts

Under the character gen parts tab is an import button, but it looks for .npc files (npc data) if there is a way to convert the .dds and .tga into .npc, if this is even possible, then that's the only way I know of. I could be wrong though. 

Yes we could Mehh, but how do we overwrite the current npcs in game? This seems easier to do if we can merge the one from our own esp's into skywind.esp, but there are still the current ones in the game, what do we do about them?

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Well we could... But we'd

Well we could... But we'd have to go through and change every one of those 8 number/letter form ids in every npc plugin by hand.  Skywind.esp has the same ids as Morroblivion, not Morrowind_sk.esm unfortunately.  Still, that is probably way less work than designing each NPC from scratch.  Though I have to admit, looking at TesV edit for hours at a time kind of drains on you......  I'm only nearing the end of D on my list of weapons!

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Well one person doesn't have

Well one person doesn't have to do it. Like how we divided up the npc conversion, each person could change the form ids in tes5edit for the npc's they made from scratch, then upload it, then we merge it together.

So one person doesn't have to do every single one. But someone needs to make a tutorial to do this. I will gadly help with the npc's I finished, but I sure as hell don't know what I'm doing in TES5Edit.

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The funny thing is, I really

The funny thing is, I really like TESV/TESIV/FO3/FNV Edit, yet I don't have a clue what is going on in the CK/CS.

I'd have to test that theory though, just to make sure it works properly.  I'll try to figure that out tomorrow, and see if I can write something to show everyone how to fix up their NPCs to work with the new master.

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Lol, I'll try to help. But I

Lol, I'll try to help. But I swear I have carpal tunnel or something. Before I could make a shit load of npcs in a few hours, but now my wrist/pinky feels tired and cramped after adding a few songs to the CK.

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Why am I getting a bad

Why am I getting a bad feeling that we have been down this road before,as thermador has stated,we might not like the idea of a converter,but personally imo it is needed badly.

The Andoran team [and they are experts] supplied us with thier converter a long time back,and we got a long way into this project and had imo,almost a playerable mod.

Ok,it had a lot of errors,but it worked,and we were slowly ironing out the errors [Rome was not built in a day],but,and this is not say that zilav has not helped,because he has,and is making a good job of it,but we are now at almost the same stage that we were at 6 months back.

We have given up trying to make the old masters work,but we are still going to need an ESM master that is dependent on skyrim.esm [the reason I made skywind.esm] or we are just travelling down the same road.

I want to be wrong about this,but after spending hours with the old masters,I am getting a bad feeling that the same snags will arise.

 

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Bad feelings are now gone,I

Bad feelings are now gone,I just downloaded and installed the esp and other needed files and have to say,this is great!.

The npc`s are all there [ingame] and the doors work etc,with the quests added it will be cool.

As for an ESM,the esp could be changed to an esm when the esp is completed.:)

And any other content could then be merged or ticked as esp`s.:)

This is great!.

Is the esp dependent on skyrim.esm,?,I have not loaded it into the CK yet.

 

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Yes it is, but some places

Yes it is, but some places are missing. Like Ahemmusa camp, Ald Daedroth, Wolverine hall.

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Never knew that Mehh,but they

Never knew that Mehh,but they can be added back from the content in the old morrowind_sk,at least I hope so.?

Might spend some time working on doing that later,it will keep me from getting bored.

 

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Also there are some array

Also there are some array errors around Balmora and Ahemmusa camp from what I've checked so far. If you get too many array errors you lose the ability to place objects and have to re-load the CK. If you place objects they show up in-game and show up in the CK after the CK is closed.

Gnisis, Almu cave dwelling has a floor you fall through. I'm not sure if that's related to the new master and if it was like that in the old master.

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Yes I have noticed those same

Yes I have noticed those same errors [the array ones],but there are also a lot of errors that are simply there because the names of the objects have an extra or space [white space] after the name,for example the object name was entered with a space after it.

Also other errors refer to the Tamriel world that is used in skyoblivion but not in the skywind [wrldmorrowind],so the wrld reference needs changing on those errors.

And also alot of textures and meshes that were used in the old skywind install are missing,even after adding Iniquity`s files,so those textures and meshes will be needed.?

As a personal test [will not change anything in the esp],I will try just loading all of the bsa [unpacked] textures and meshes from oblivion and SI`s and add everything that we had before,then check the errors.

 

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Zilav, any chance we could

Zilav, any chance we could see a version of this for oblivion? Might sound strange but the lighting fixes in the caves and door markers are what I am happiest about, that and the ability to edit in the ck. So very very happy at the moment! loving the new esp! :D

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Yeah, I was going over the

Yeah, I was going over the forms with spaces after them. I found the spells, but cannot seem to find the towns.

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Hold on doing anything with

Hold on doing anything with the new file, I'm trying to find the cause of errors.

Compared file before and after it was saved in CK, 410736 and 399949 records. That is a 2.62% of lost content. Damn, too much.

Yes, CK for some reason doesn't like Ahemmusa camp and some other cells. I compared it to ahemmusa camp in morrowind_ck, and they are indentical. All the references, objects and coords are the same. Cell records are the same too (except additional regions settings, tried removing them but no luck). I really don't know what is going on.

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zilav,You are getting there

zilav,

You are getting there and have ironed out a lot of the errors we had in balmora and other places in the CK,and the NPC`s are all there [Mehh & I were having real problems with that].Thanks!

In my last post i stated that I would not change anything in your ESP,just that I would do a bit of work personally.

 

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Ahemmusa is like my array

Ahemmusa is like my array error testing ground let's put it that way. So I'm actually not shocked that something happened to it. I was shocked that Balmora was actually in CK.

Also I wanna clear up some of the CK errors and have been wondering what to rename the cell names that are too big. I like consistency, and I don't want to give people issues when searching for a cell, because one of them is named differently.

Here is an example...

CELLS: Errors were encountered during InitItem for interior cell:

Cell 'MaarSGanVSGarryAsSHut' (0148025F)

Check Warnings for details.
CELLS: Cell name Solstheim, Mortrag Glacier: Outer Ring for cell SolstheimVSMortragSGlacierXSOuterSRing (0148057F) is too long. The maximum length allowed is 33 characters.

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Ok my findings so far.I got

Ok my findings so far.

I got skywind.esp before resaving in CK, fixed ownership errors (set flag on all factions) and turned into esm. It loads very fast in CK and also "too long name" errors are gone, I think due to a file being esm now.

A lot of array errors. However in game ahemmusa camp is there, so... from programmers perspective those errors are indeed hardcoded memory limitation in CK. Looks like it allocates a static memory array to store pointers for all references in a mod. Skywind is THE largest mod so far, and CK just can't handle all of it. Skyrim.esm is another big mod, but lets don't forget that game handles this file not like any other mod (oblivion.esm was just an ordinary mod for game engine, the Nehrim project is the evidence of that), you can't start game without skyrim.esm being loaded.

Array errors are most likely not a sign of corruption. What can we do to solve it? I see 2 approaches now:

1) Try to split skywind in 2 parts, maybe array is allocated per mod, not one array for all mods. But upkeeping separate files will be hard.

2) Maybe... maybe perform declutterizing of Morrowind. Build the list of objects that can be removed from the game world, that don't influence gameplay and don't have a significant visual weight. Then I'll remove all of their referencies with script and we can see if it'll be of any help for CK.

So what do you say? Try declutterize approach? Can some create a text file with formids of useless objects? When saving skywind.esp CK removes around 12000 records, so to be safe we need to remove around 20000 I think.

I don't know if it will help, but something must be done.

Oh by the way, here is esm version which was not resaved in CK and has all the refs. You can walk in Ahemmusa camp. I did. Because the game itself handles refs fine and doen't run out of handles.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4rR0C-Bcx_JM2VfUXZrTmVSWXM

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Karma: 1478
Hm I actually like the idea

Hm I actually like the idea of spliting the file in half, I actually thought of doing something like that because the Andorian team did that.

Maybe the npcs can have their own file, cells can have their own file, and the world can have its own file?

The too many letter errors are still in the CK error log, and I'm confused, I'm not getting any array errors at all at Ahemmusa camp, I've been dropping objects like crazy, and it's working just fine. What's wrong with this file exactly?

EDIT: Ohhhhh... now I see what I did. Well I wanted to re-make the Skywind theme music for interiors with a mouse macro. Since Skywind has to open up Skyrim, and I didn't wanna add Morrowind music to Skyrim cells. So I backed up my Skyrim.esm and opened it up in Tesnif and deleted all the cells/regions. Then I downloaded your file, started it up(forgot about my Skyrim having no cells), it opened perfectly with no array errors at all, and re-tried it with my Skyrim.esm that has cells, and got array errors out the ass. So ya, I guess removing Skyrim cells when you wanna edit, can stop array errors. Neato!

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