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Ravanna
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Why You Should Still Play Morrowind in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0jiOpD-AQ

Discuss!

I agree with many points he makes. I would help enough fans of skywind actually have played or are willing to try morrowind 1st, we can never truly duplicate its charm the same way.

Edited by: thermador on 11/21/2014 - 10:19
smartinius
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hey,

hey,

i disagree that skywind will be something like the recreation of robocop and such movies because our community and morrowind experts wont let that happen but the dude in the video dont know that. he didnt play the alpha. i think skywind will stand for itself with enough nostalgia, to touch my heart. so here are my opinions and expectations.

why i want to play skywind.

1. the musik - morrowind music is my absolute favorite game musik, period! and the new stuff adds perfecly into that playlist

2. exploration - thats a strengh of skywind! because everything is rebuild, skywind give me a lot to explore from landscapes to weapons and everything between.

3. voiceover - a top reason for me is the voiceover project! having speaking in the game is a strengh!

4. spear fighting - i love spear fighting, so less games have that. add that, and iam happy :)

what i expect from the skywind gameplay

1. the rich magic and alchemie crafting - i want recreate that jumping amulette again, where i can jump  over half of the map :) fun!

2. limited fast travel - fast travel really distroyed a lot of motivation for me

3. no auto npc level- i think finding a area with enemys that are to strong realy motivates me to get stronger and come back later

4. loot - its a strengh of morrowind, that in every corner you can get awesome loot. we have to keep that

what skywind can make better as morrowind

1. mount - i think mountable animals make the game better

2. crafting recources - i think the armor and weapon crafting makes the game better. even more when more crafting recources and crafting steps come into play.

3. random events - i think the random dragon fights are realy awesome in skyrim, i would keep that strengh and add it into skywind. that would make it better. serious!

4. particles - i think alot of differnd particles like falling leaves and dust and such would enhance the overall deph alot, its modern, i like it, it makes no sense but looks damn good

:) bye, smartinius

 

 

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Well, the ambiance of

Well, the ambiance of morrowind is my favourite, I actually didn't like sky rim that much because it's so colorless, and I never played a Nord, I never wanted to and won't do it ^^ the background of skyrim with this dragon thing bored me, and it was kind of easy, I killed alduin with no difficulties, that was a bit disappointing, it is supposed to be super strong, but really wasn't. Furthermore, I'm not sure to even remember of skyrim's songs, there is never music in this game, and it's disturbing, it seems empty. That's probably personal but I felt skyrim was empty 

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I see a lot of people who don

I see a lot of people who don't like the push for better graphics, and I understand that graphics don't necessarily make games great, but they do a lot to improve them.  But it's not just a matter of graphics, mechanics play probably the biggest role, and compared to Skyrim, and even Oblivion for that matter, Morrowind just doesn't hold a candle.  I've played ES III through V, and I honestly believe Skyrim is superior in terms of gameplay:  It's simple, it makes sense, and it's fun.  Morrowind I think has the most interesting story out of the ES games I've played, but it has nothing to lose from putting it in a better engine, except graphics that were bad even in it's day, and horrible combat.  But, then again, I played Skyrim first, so there's not really anything in the way of nostalgia for me.

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I did start with oblivion

I did start with oblivion that I bought just because I had 15€ to spend and the game box had a pretty cool looking, and then I played skyrim, and wanted to play morrowind. The combats are pretty awful in morrowind, but there's challenge, the stealth talent is way to weak to be used, so I had to train a LOT in order to defeat dagoth ur, but I was proud of what I did you know, and alduin did me want to spit on the screen and shout

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Omg, very sad video. I have

Omg, very sad video. I have to agree with some points, but disagree with many of them. Why Morrowind is so good, and remain good even our days? Is not only because of all that goodness we have in it. It’s because the modern games coming out more and more dumb. Making players become as dumb as the game they play. No more mazy dungeons with a boss that will hit you hard. Strait line quest and easy scripted boss killed in 30 seconds at the end of tunnel. Is all we find in modern games our days, not surprising people turn to the retro. Playing new games, I just can’t stand a feeling like if someone is holding my hand and constantly telling me what to do. I promised myself that Skyrim is the last TES series I spent money on. TES 6, no way, I’m sure they will put only 3 skills in it: attack, defence, magic. I better stop now. As for Skywind, I don believe it will be a vulgar replica. Considering all the efforts and passion put in, it cannot be. Someone will always say “…nah, is not Morrowind…”. Damn no, is not Morrowind. It’s better

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 While it is true that the

 While it is true that the combat system was incredibly complex, it often did just boil down to an irritating series of swings and misses - and besides, the combat system in Skyrim has to consider perks - which allow for creative freedom in a different way than Morrowind.. Skywind and Morrowind were never going to be the same game.

 On the topic of perks, they can and have been overhauled multiple times to suit many different tastes, something that could never really be achieved by tweaking Morrowinds random number generator, which leads me onto my next point - Skyrim still has an incredibly active modding community, who will likely jump on opportunities to shape Skywind to their taste when its released. No one will ever make Morrowind into an accessible, modern game with mods, but Skywind may yet prove that the modding community can make a modern game that is as magical as the old ones.

Vanilla TES games are great, even brilliant. However they shine the brightest whenever proper modders do their thing to them, and I think the Skywind team are proper modders.

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While grinding my way through

While grinding my way through the dull Dragonborn quest in Skyrim (and it was a dull grind) I found myself transported back to Morrowind by the Tel Mithryn sights and sounds. I became almost homesick for the magic of Morrowind: the sounds, the space, the rich storylines and varied topography, and the wonderful anticipatory sense of discovery not really duplicated in either Oblivion or Skyrim.

I became involved with SkyWind in a very small way because I believe that, by grafting the superior Morrowind world onto the superior Skyrim game engine, Morrowind can not only be improved, but also remain an interesting and challenging game in 2014 and beyond.

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I wonder if we could ask him

I wonder if we could ask him to be one of the first testers...

By the way Rav- saw your comment.  Well said

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I don't see Skywind as going

I don't see Skywind as going to be anything like a big budget Hollywood remake.   I think the Skywind community has a love for Morrowind, and it's why most of us are here in the first place.  We're not like some hollywood producer that's capitalizing off of a nostalgic title *cough* Michael Bay *cough*.  I don't think the magic of Morrowind lies in it's environmental layout.  I think It's in the narrative, atmosphere, and challenge.  The esthetic hasn't changed, and neither has the story or atmosphere.

I haven't played Morrowind very much, and I don't intend to(can't stand the combat), but I feel I don't need to play Morrowind to appreciate Skywind. That's just my own opinion.

Nothing against Dave.  He's entitled to his opinion, but I think he's developed a bias based on his own nostalgic feelings toward Morrowind, and needs to lay off the hate-orade. 

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Honestly, it's just prefrence

Honestly, it's just prefrence...Huh, I suppose I stand in the minority...(or perhaps the silent majority) that I'm largely indifferent on the matter, I really don't have a favorite TES. They all pretty much have a equal amount of things I like and things I dislike I can't really say (as a whole) if one is better than the other (I don't \ replay these games too much or even have the time to do that so I can't really make any decisive comparisons on them). Honestly, I just don't have as much reverence for the series that other people have for it. I'm sure I'll enjoy Skywind just as much as the rest of the TES...and If this guy like the original Morrowind better that's fine he can keep on playing it. But I'm sure there will be people didn't like Morrowind and they'll probably love Skywind.

But really I have no idea what this guy is talking about with movie remakes. There are for one not in the same medium as us and you could make the argument that there have been some pretty fantastic reboots/remakes. 

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Vanilla Skyrim is a bit of a

Vanilla Skyrim is a bit of a shell, with some glaring deficiencies in content.

Mods, however, make it awesome. Bethesda expansion packs are good, too, I enjoyed Dawnguard and especially Dragonborn much more than the Vanilla content.

Vanilla Morrowind and even Vanilla Oblivion stand on their own much better.

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i fail to play morrowind its

i fail to play morrowind its broken for me  probely when it was new i would liked the game play beter but nowe u cant even play it when its your first time playing it

i playt oblivion a lot but when i playt skyrim so much and u get back to oblivion u feel skywim is the beter 1 some complain its to easy i just think my skils are awsome nowe so i can handel almost anything  i dont need some hardcore mode to prove that  : ) what skils does old morrowind need it isnt the hitting from mobs only thing u can do is collect the good stuf

i think skywind is gone be awsome when done  and al those ho say origenel morrowind is beter  are for 90% saying that whit nostalgie in there eye's 

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I'll definitely play Skywind

I'll definitely play Skywind when it comes out, but I'll still stick to modded Morrowind for my main playthrough.

Don't want to miss out on Tamriel Rebuilt or Sotha Sil Expanded, you know ;)

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Sorry for digging out this

Sorry for digging out this topic from grave, but I don't agree with most points in this video. The most reason why Morrowind will be considered as best TES of all time is that we played it in most cases in childhood, so we filled up with imagination those barren and empty space with rough animations. Then nostalgia wins. Second thing is that we even don't know how final product will look (mainly due to engine limitation), so many thing which he mentioned would simple disappear and probably many mods could appear after realize. Third thing is that I think Skywind in many case will be even more lore-firendly than vanilla was (saints depictions are best examples). Also u can just look at discussions like if deadra heart pie will be eatable, so we pay attention to smallest details. Fourth thing is that maybe some moders will port Tamriel Rebuilt and Sotha Sil Expanded to Skywind. But I agree with that we should play MW in 2014, because we have not done Skywind yet and it helps devs in work :P

 

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I responded to the guy,

I responded to the guy, anyone agrees?

"Hey Dave, I am Dragomir. I'm Skywind's art director and one of the music leads, so as you can imagine I'm responsible for quite a few design elements, also including deviations from original. I have, much like you, obsessively played Morrowind for over 10 years, and I still do, and I hold as much love for it as you seem to.

First of all, I wanted to say that you are right. Skywind is NOT something that aims to be Morrowind. It's a common misconception. Nothing can replicate that charm when changing really anything, even MGSO makes some changes that are not in line with the spirits of the original. Your concerns are absolutely legit though, and I share many of them, but since I have influence over the project, I try to steer it in a way that will fix the problems. There is one thing that makes your judgement of Skywind a bit not fair, and actually false. The problems with modern movie remakes is usually an answer to the question you brought up: "Why are they even made". Movie remakes you mentioned, were made for nothing else than money. Reboots of popular franchises is a steady buisness plan, much safer than coming with something new and original, because there's already an existing fanbase, who's load of nostalgia can be easily exploited. Many fans of old movies often deem the movie "will suck", but pay to watch it anyway, just to have some fuel for their hate against anybody changing what became part of them over the years.

Yes, there will be things changed in Skywind. The feel will be slightly different. The main difference from popular remakes though, is that it's a volounteer project, made ONLY from the love for original Morrowind you seem to share. Everyone remembers it in a different way, and it's original "feel" is something very aetheral and hard to grasp. Skywind team is doing their best to stay faithful, and plenty of things that are yet to be implemented are being done for the sole purpose of feeling more like Morrowind. Hell I often come across as an asshole for rejecting design and music work that doesn't have the feel, but then we can't accept everything, as much as I'd like to give credit to everyone's creativity.

All the changes are not only a matter of making it "our own thing" though. What we are aiming for, in some areas succeeding, in other failing, is to make Skywind not into what Morrowind was, but what it was supposed to be. There is going to be plenty of additional contents, and little details like the doorknobs you've mentioned, that will make the world even more believable and real. Every single design, be it a mug or an artifact is carefully ran through filters of loremasters, people who got to know the world better than Bethesda seems to today. If changes are made it is only ones that make sense in terms of game world, or sheer logic. We have even managed to make contact with Michael Kirkbride, one of the creative minds for TES 3, and in my opinion person most responsible for its ingenuity. He came up with all of the alien designs, all of the insanely deep and detailed lore, genius plotline and brilliant cultures. Many of his ideas and designs didn't make it into the game due to engine limitations, and we are doing our best to use as many of them as possible.

I'm aware many changes seem abrupt, but then they are not polished yet to work their way more smoothly into the world, and our memories. Because for a big part, because of this world's depth and brilliance, Morrowind is more than just a game, it's a world that lives on in our minds, and deserves a modern re-interpretation. Skywind is aiming to expand all that we loved in Morrowind, give it even more detail and sense in terms of the world. That sometimes requires tough design calls. For example - the Imperial steel armour in Morrowind. It is pretty iconic, since we see it very, very often. But was it's design really thought through? Do the horses and wheat on the breastplate really mean anything to the Empire? According to Kirkbride's lore, they worship moths, and crop saltrice mostly. Especially those symbols would work in Morrowind, since every fort has a moth in its name, and saltrice is much more common in that province. So, here is what one of our concept artists came up with: http://i.imgur.com/m5H5l2d.jpg
It keeps with the style and spirits of the originals, but also corrects symbolism, gives more detail for modellers to work with, and makes it more original than an obvious rip off of Maximus' armour from Gladiator. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/13173/13362555_3.jpg?v=8CF3A2E27D55BD0

Another example, Telvanni mages. Awesome in the game. But their looks were quite underwhelming, just an old man in a robe. What were they in lore?
http://25.media.tumblr.com/68d9f02478eb4bedf4bd4771ba4424c2/tumblr_mnfcv6CyVg1qmu7sqo1_1280.jpg
Holy crap! Apparently, Kirkbride wanted them to look totally inhuman, grown into their armour from childhood, remolding their body and bones to fit inside it, and move around only via levitation. That was of course impossible, or very hard/inefficient to represent in Morrowind's engine. So, I took it upon myself to remake this comic - book style drawing into a concept that can translate into 3D, and work with Skyrim engine, but keep the main features of it.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/059/2/d/telvanni_master_by_swietopelk-d78bkub.jpg
Voila, Telvanni Magus Suit. Soon to be implemented in the game.

These are just two very small examples of how do we go about changes in design, be it graphics, music, or gameplay for that matter. Yes, gameplay too, we are working on a new system, that would take best elements from Morrowind and Skyrim and combine them, while also adding new elements. Skyrim's gameplay was pretty dumbed down, but if you look how mods like Requiem and Skyrim Redone went about it, it's suddenly all the more interesting, and we want to add things those mods didn't have (especially focusing on broken/boring skills, like smithing).

We are doing our best to keep the original spirit of Morrowind intact. Sometimes we fail, sometimes we succeed, we are not demigods, but we are very, very dedicated. I hope this clears a few things. It is not just "Morrowind was cool, let's remake it, but make it our own thing", it's more like "Let's make Morrowind that every fan is dreaming about". Of course keeping it reasonably realistic, so that we don't end up like Tamriel Rebuilt, 10 years in production, still not even half done. I wish them the best of luck and love their project, but I'm afraid their goals are very idealistic."



And yes, I agree with Rav. Everyone working on Skywind should give Morrowind a go. Especially people working on music, concept art and level design. You CAN NOT replicate a feel that you've never felt. Morrowind is hard, Morrowind is clunky, it's unforgiving, but if you don't find any appeal in it... Why are you even here?

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Calm, calm down, I liked

Calm, calm down, I liked design, freedom of choice, abundance of skills and story. So it is quite a lot.

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Dragomir wrote:

Dragomir wrote:

And yes, I agree with Rav. Everyone working on Skywind should give Morrowind a go. Especially people working on music, concept art and level design. You CAN NOT replicate a feel that you've never felt. Morrowind is hard, Morrowind is clunky, it's unforgiving, but if you don't find any appeal in it... Why are you even here?

Easy there tiger. I've never played Morrowind. Can you say that Skywinds landscapes don't feel like Morrowind? I've seen concept art, listened to the music, and played a good hour of it. I know the feel of it regardless even if I haven't experienced it. Though it's been a challenge to put into level design since it's being completely redone. I won't ever have the same nostalgia so many are "suffering" from, but I think many here can grasp the magic of it without experiencing it. We just can't appreciate it the same way in this day and age really. That's the sad truth. Every time I try to play Morrowind, I just want to build more of Skywind so I, like many others, can appreciate it in a newer light one day. 

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Reading these posts, I feel

Reading these posts, I feel like there are a two misconceptions about Dave's argument.

1. Dave's biggest reason for playing Morrowind instead of Skywind is Tamriel Rebuilt. If you've watched his TR streams, you would understand he has incredible respect for the project. I haven't played it myself, but from watching his streams and listening what he said, the landscaping and questlines are as good as they get.

2. Dave doesn't think that Skywind will be a bad remake of Morrowind. In fact, he thinks it will be very good and has implied that he plans to play it. His point is that, like many remakes, Skywind won't be as good as the original.

Now, I personally think that Skywind has the potential to surpass Morrowind, I just wanted to make clear Dave's argument. If you think Dave's argument is fuelled by "nostalgia" then you aren't listening carefully. All his point are valid, and frankly, quite a few of them have no answer.

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" If you think Dave's

If you think Dave's argument is fuelled by "nostalgia" then you aren't listening carefully. All his point are valid, and frankly, quite a few of them have no answer."

nope. wrong. His argument on combat is just nonsense and he has no sense for good game design. The system was brought over from the table top world (as he said). The reason why it works for table top games is because there is no way for the player to know whether or not they hit the target .. they NEED the numbers to tell them that. In a 3D game like morrowind, you can clearly see the results of your actions and so regardless of all the other factors, a hit should be registered as a hit. It is allowed to do little to no damage but the fact that you can miss when you hit sends mixed messages to the player. In short: it is one of the purest examples of bad game design in morrowind and his argument of all the little factors involved is irrelevant because we can have all that without having the nonsensical clash in mechanics VS visuals.

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SquallyDaBeanz wrote:Can you

SquallyDaBeanz wrote:

Can you say that Skywinds landscapes don't feel like Morrowind?

To be totally honest, yes. Quite a few of them didn't, luckily it's being fixed over time. They still don't feel like Morrowind, but in this case I'm okay with it - since for a big part they are what Morrowind was supposed to be. But don't tell me actually getting into the game wouldn't help you to nail down the nostalgia.

SquallyDaBeanz wrote:

I've seen concept art, listened to the music, and played a good hour of it. I know the feel of it regardless even if I haven't experienced it. Though it's been a challenge to put into level design since it's being completely redone. I won't ever have the same nostalgia so many are "suffering" from, but I think many here can grasp the magic of it without experiencing it. We just can't appreciate it the same way in this day and age really. That's the sad truth. Every time I try to play Morrowind, I just want to build more of Skywind so I, like many others, can appreciate it in a newer light one day.


Yes, I understand that you'll never get the same strike of brilliance we got 10 years ago, that still didn't quite wear off, but giving the game a go really wouldn't kill. Especially with mods like MGSO and a few others, which make the experience still a good one, even by today's standards.
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Langotriel wrote:

Langotriel wrote:

If you think Dave's argument is fuelled by "nostalgia" then you aren't listening carefully. All his point are valid, and frankly, quite a few of them have no answer."

nope. wrong. His argument on combat is just nonsense and he has no sense for good game design. The system was brought over from the table top world (as he said). The reason why it works for table top games is because there is no way for the player to know whether or not they hit the target .. they NEED the numbers to tell them that. In a 3D game like morrowind, you can clearly see the results of your actions and so regardless of all the other factors, a hit should be registered as a hit. It is allowed to do little to no damage but the fact that you can miss when you hit sends mixed messages to the player. In short: it is one of the purest examples of bad game design in morrowind and his argument of all the little factors involved is irrelevant because we can have all that without having the nonsensical clash in mechanics VS visuals.

You are missing the point... Dave's main argument against Skywind is that it won't include Tamriel Rebuilt. Tamriel Built has made it clear that they don't want to port their project into Skywind. This has nothing to do with nostalgia. Unless the Tamriel Rebuilt team changes its mind, Morrowind will have vastly more content than Skywind. Now, whether or not that means Morrowind is better than Skywind depends entirely on what you value in your game.

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Smi1e wrote:

Smi1e wrote:

You are missing the point... Dave's main argument against Skywind is that it won't include Tamriel Rebuilt. Tamriel Built has made it clear that they don't want to port their project into Skywind. This has nothing to do with nostalgia. Unless the Tamriel Rebuilt team changes its mind, Morrowind will have vastly more content than Skywind. Now, whether or not that means Morrowind is better than Skywind depends entirely on what you value in your game.

I heard different from Devs of TR from my understanding they're open to porting the content but they won't do it. Of course porting TR is massive amounts of work and because of that it may never happen. (A port might require in some cases of Skywind levels of work) Hell it still being worked on so to even assume that a port may happen is a bit premature.

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Yes, that's what I meant. I

Yes, that's what I meant. I should have been a little more clear.

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I do really like Morrowind's

I do really like Morrowind's enchantment and bartering systems also the spells are awesome, but the archery sucks which is a big thing for me, and the alchemy in Skyrim isn't half what it was in Morrowind or Oblivion. I think they will be both be amazing in mildly different ways.

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TR does plan to overhaul some

TR does plan to overhaul some of their older regions (and heck, they've even overhauled some of Sacred East already). No point in porting TR over until it's 100% done, and that probably won't be until the next decade or so. Good news is that their landscaping is good enough already but the bad news is that the mainland surpasses Vvardenfell in size.

Yes, I will still play the original Morrowind but all those good design decisions in Skywind makes me excited to play Skywind as well.

I couldn't ever get into Morroblivion because there were no landscape overhauls, the armor looked plastic, clothes weren't properly fitted, no mesh and texture upgrades...etc. Skywind looks like it will bring a lot of new things to the table and that's why I'm excited for Skywind - and I will play it thoroughly even if I would only want to see how everything's changed.

 

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His point wasn't really that

His point wasn't really that reboots are always bad, just that they are usually very different. And if you're a huge fan of the original you will generally be turned off by the changes made in the reboot. And that makes sense.

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It really is an amazing game

It really is an amazing game mate, and I'm saying that without nostalgia. Every mechanic in the game is there for a reason and adds depth to the overall experience. That is exactly what Dave said, and he said it for a reason, because its true.

Jam373
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Joined: 06/07/2014 - 09:51
Karma: 5
The fact that when I first

The fact that when I first played Morrowind that mechanic didn't feel counter-intuitive just shows that it isn't broken. It certainly isn't realistic, but it definitely isn't broken. That would be along the same lines as saying that shooting someone in the face in an fps, and them not dying instantly due to having high hitpoints, means the shooting is broken, even though it was a thought out design choice for obvious balance reasons.

And that brings me to the point Dave touched on, that the gameplay just works so perfectly, in how it lets the player feel real character progress. The fact that you start out as a frightened weakling, on a harsh cruel land who can hardly kill anything. But then you can advance into being an unstoppable wizard with the ability to wipe out an entire village with one spell is an amazingly role-playing arc that no modern game seems to be able to implement.