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ponyrider0
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Germandeathkittiez wrote:

Germandeathkittiez wrote:

Too bad that ever since updating Morroblivion, I can still fast travel but not access the province by swimming because the loading screen keeps spawning me where the loading screen activates (so I automatically leave once I enter). Did the perimeter of morrowind worldspace move? Can't be entirely certain it was the update, but I don't see what else it could be. Anyone else experience this? Is there an easy fix?

I've only tested this mod with Morroblivion v064, but I can confirm the math is incorrect with this latest version.  Maybe merging the Siege at Firemoth add-on was what broke the map/border offset calculations.  The solution is to modify the math and conditional statements used in the script -- unfortunately, it is full of hardcoded coordinates and conditionals which were made specifically for whatever outdated version of Morroblivion was around at the time.  So there is no easy fix -- especially since the Tamriel Heightmaps mod is based on an artist's interpretation of the continent which has very distorted proportions compared to the in-game Morrowind/Morroblivion landmass proportions... so there will never be a 1:1 fit for transitioning with anything that uses that mod.

I threw out all of the broken math and made a version for Tamriel Rebuilt which causes the worldspace transition to take place in the mountains ranges between Cyrodiil and Morrowind.  Although it worked, the worldspace transition just was never seamless enough for my liking.  In the future, I may consider an intense Blizzard / Ash-Storm to hide the transition between the two landmasses.

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Does anybody have the problem
Does anybody have the problem with this mod where there is still an invisible wall on the edge of cyrodil that tells me I can't go further into Morrowind? It's preventing me from using this mod >~<
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You do have Borders turned of

You do have Borders turned of in Oblivion.ini

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I did NOT know those could be
I did NOT know those could be turned off....
roxon_55
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On mine (Computer\Local Disk

On mine (Computer\Local Disk\User\User Name\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion\Oblivion.ini )

Edit It, go Down to ( Main ) Change

bEnableBorderRegion=1   to   bEnableBorderRegion=0

It is also in the First section 10 Below SIntroSequence=Bethesda Softworks

1Mac
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Am I understanding correctly

Am I understanding correctly that traveling to Morroblivion world by sea no longer works? Out of curiousity, how did/would it have worked with a ship mod like Side_s Sailing Ships?

Does the mod still work as TWMP for Morrowind, i.e. adding Morrowind to the Tamriel worldspace? Does it actually require Morroblivion for this function? How about compatibility with TWMP Black Marsh or UL Eastern Peaks, which modify adjacent lands?

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I've never used TWMP, but if

I've never used TWMP, but if the TWMP Skyrim and TWMP Highrock lands exist in their own worldspace which is completely separate from the main Oblivion worldspace (aka Cyrodiil), then I suppose that is similar to how Morroblivion exists.  I have no idea how the TWMP mod transports you between the two worldspaces (if that is indeed how it works).

How ICE's Morroblivion in Tamriel works is that it monitors your player's worldspace cooredinates as you walk along the Tamriel Heightmaps in the Cyrodiil worldspace.  Once you cross a specific X-Y coordinate threshold, it teleports you to Morroblivion and tries to do math to estimate your equivalent location using the X-Y coordinate and scaling system in Morroblivion's worldspace.  However, the problem is that these math formulas are hardcoded for a Morroblivion worldspace and coordinate system which is many years and versions older than the current v064 release of Morroblivion.  In that interim, I think many more landmass cells were added to the west of Vvardenfell for inclusion of Solstheim and Seige at Firemoth.  If you would like to try this mod with the latest version of Morroblivion, I would start on dry land directly south of Vivec City and swim north.  I think the math formulas around that area still work roughly enough to not push you into an infinite teleport loop between Cyrodiil and Morrowind.

1Mac
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ponyrider0 wrote:

ponyrider0 wrote:

I've never used TWMP, but if the TWMP Skyrim and TWMP Highrock lands exist in their own worldspace which is completely separate from the main Oblivion worldspace (aka Cyrodiil), then I suppose that is similar to how Morroblivion exists.

This is not how TWMP mods works. TWMP mods (and Elsweyr Deserts of Anequina) actually add onto the existing worldspace of Tamriel, TWMP mods using onra's Tamriel Heightmaps as a base. That is, TWMP and Tamriel Heightmaps are talking about the same thing (I think TWMP stands for something like Tamriel World Map, but I'm not sure). A mod named "TWMP <area>" is adding features of some kind to the <area> heightmaps from onra's original mod, whether it's just trees and other landscaping or actual towns and actors and quests.

My impression is that this is also what Ice's mod did for the non-Vvardenfell parts of Morrowind. That is, the "dry land directly south of Vivec City" is in the Tamriel worldspace, and is also essentially added by Ice's mod, right? That would basically make it TWMP Morrowind. My question is if this addition to the Tamriel worldspace is dependent on Morroblivion. My impression is that it wouldn't be so long as you stay out of the transit zone, but I wasn't sure.

ponyrider0
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No, ICE's mod relies upon the

No, ICE's mod relies upon the Tamriel Heightmaps for all landmass in the main Oblivion/Cyrodiil worldspace.  It does not add any landmass data to either Tamriel or Morrowind worldspaces.  ICE's mod only contains a set of scripts which track your X-Y coordinate position and tries to teleport you back and forth between the Tamriel and Morroblivion worldspaces. 

In other words: if you made a dummy master to take the place of Morroblivion, ICE's mod adds nothing to your game except for teleporting you to a non-existant worldspace when you get close enough to the transition zone. 

*** One exception is Mournhold in Tamriel -- that might add the exterior walls of the city to the Tamriel Heightmaps.  However, I've never tried it out so I don't know for sure.

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I'm pretty sure Oblivion

I'm pretty sure Oblivion would just CTD on load if someone tried to merge all of Morroblivion into the Tamriel worldspace, haha. It would be cool if it could work, though.

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I've thought about it, but it

I've thought about it, but it's not an easy task even from a cartography perspective: the Oblivion/Cyrodiil world scale is about half that of Morroblivion.  In order for them to sort of fit together like puzzle pieces, you would first have to shrink the Morroblivion world to 50% of its normal size, or scale up Cyrodiil world to 200% of its normal size.  Scaling the landmasses affects the space between buildings and other static objects, so in order to make it work, you'd have to scale up or down all meshes.  What you are left with then is a Gulliver's Travels kind of experience -- Morrowind becomes a land of tiny houses or Cyrodiil becomes a land of giant houses....

One solution is if you do some bizarre escher-knot like transition along the border where you start defying the laws of physics as you travel from one side to the other...  

And probably the best solution, is just to keep both worlds separate.   ..... that is at least until I can port SHOTN and P:C from Morrowind engine to Morroblivion. http://project-tamriel.com/

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...Hah! Now I'm imagining

...Hah! Now I'm imagining some weird Sonic Generations thing where you could time-travel back to the retro version of each Cyrodiil city in P:T with a spell.

1Mac
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Puddles wrote:

Puddles wrote:

I'm pretty sure Oblivion would just CTD on load if someone tried to merge all of Morroblivion into the Tamriel worldspace, haha. It would be cool if it could work, though.

It wasn't quite what I was talking about; however, there are people that have Elsweyr DOA, Valenwood Improved TWMP, Hammerfell TWMP, and Skyrim Improved TWMP installed and running. Morroblivion can't have that much more content than those four mods. The bigger challenge, as ponyrider says, is that the worldscales aren't the same.

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Well, I think the main issue

Well, I think the main issue is more the amount of scripts that would be constantly running. Shivering Isles quests don't run while in Cyrodiil, Cyrodiil's quests don't run in Shivering Isles, Morroblivion's quests don't run in Cyrodiil, Cyrodiil's quests don't run in Morrowind. It might be able to work, but I don't know how 'stable' it would be.

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I actually wish someone would

I actually wish someone would make a larger-scaled Cyrodiil... would allow more room for other mods to fit buildings and such without conflicts. Would be a ridiculously difficult project, I'm sure. Couldn't one just add an invisible border at the edge of the map somewhere, perhaps in the Valus Mountains rather than in the middle of the ocean? And then a cave or something leading to "Morrowind" ... well I guess it would dump you in the middle of the ocean, but I'm planning to install the Tamriel Rebuilt conversion and something like that compatible with the TR borders, which probably end somewhere in those mountains, would be awesome. This would also avoid any need for scaling.

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Germandeathkittiez wrote:

Germandeathkittiez wrote:

I actually wish someone would make a larger-scaled Cyrodiil... would allow more room for other mods to fit buildings and such without conflicts. Would be a ridiculously difficult project, I'm sure. Couldn't one just add an invisible border at the edge of the map somewhere, perhaps in the Valus Mountains rather than in the middle of the ocean? And then a cave or something leading to "Morrowind" ... well I guess it would dump you in the middle of the ocean, but I'm planning to install the Tamriel Rebuilt conversion and something like that compatible with the TR borders, which probably end somewhere in those mountains, would be awesome. This would also avoid any need for scaling.

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/13911

http://www.projectmanager.f2s.com/morrowind/Tamrielx2/index....

-- yes, Tamriel Rebuilt / Morrowind Mainland might be able to be grafted on to the 2x Worldspace... Someone would have to do the math to be sure.

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So here's a horrible

So here's a horrible infographic/meme thing that seems to indicate that Morrowind/TR world would actually overlay pretty closely atop Oblivion/Tamriel world. Thoughts?

ponyrider0
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1Mac wrote:

1Mac wrote:

So here's a horrible infographic/meme thing that seems to indicate that Morrowind/TR world would actually overlay pretty closely atop Oblivion/Tamriel world. Thoughts?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but unless they have actually scaled and mathematically mapped the worldspaces together, they are spreading misinformation.  I have worked on this for several months to map the worldspaces together and found that the scale is about 1.5-2.0 different.  I would be MORE THAN HAPPY TO BE PROVEN WRONG.  If you give me a working mathematical algorithm to map the worldspace coordinates together, I will drop everything to implement the scripting and source-code to merge the worldspaces.

 

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