Well I thought of Morrobliviskyrim as a kind of tongue-in-cheek (since its such a mouthful :P ) title that was always unofficial, and that alludes to the fact that the chain of this team's work would essentially be going from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim. It also entertains the idea of porting Oblivion, but it's not an official title or a commitment.
Quest conversion seems nice to dream about as manual conversion takes so long, but even if its left out and most everything else can be converted, that's a hell of a lot of work saved. I can't imagine there would have ever been a successful conversion of Morrowind to Oblivion if it wasn't for a convertor that converted the world, it probably would have gone the same way as the Daggerfall conversion projects that have sprung up for Morrowind and Oblivion (and I'm sure Skyrim soon). I remember reading a post from one of the Nehrim developers saying that what took them the longest was making the world, and that they regretted spending so much time on building a large world that was only sparsely detailed (in terms of quests and things to do) in many places because it would have taken so long to finely detail them. As a result, they hope to make a smaller but more detailed world for their Skyrim project. That problem can be made virtually moot for us with a converter, and that seems like a big deal, and probably worth taking out the prayer mats and developing honorific rituals to the Andoran development team, even if their mad programming skills can't get Morroblivion a quest converter :P.
EDIT: Derpy post was derpy.
But ... but ... I want Morrowind in Skyrim. Not the province, the GAME. Complete with all its content. That my personal position, though I would think, even leaving aside the suggestion of this team working on converting both, that making all new content would be a lot of work. Yeah, either way you have to manually create quests, but it makes it take that much longer when you have to come up with the quests and plotlines yourself, rather than just manually convert pre-existing quests. And you wouldn't really be able to just convert the world and make new quests, since in the over 200 years since Morrowind's time period a lot has changed. Vivec would need to be a crater, all the NPCs would need to be changed as they wouldn't still be alive, and I'm sure the list goes on. Indeed, if we wanted to be strictly accurate, you'd have to change the geography a bit too, as the big Red Mountain eruption wouldn't have left the terrain unchanged.
How would we realistically be running around in MW in the 3rd era and Skyrim in the 4th? Unless we're making it into more of a total conversion. My idea was dumb, I admit but the 200 year skip when we decide to sail to Skyrim would make no sense.
Make a teleport or something else - it's not a problem.
The main target now - recreate quests and scripts. This is not hard, but very boring. So the more people will work on this projject the merrier.
I don't get what you mean. I meant that the time you would skip betwen Morrowind's time and Skyrim's is massive. In Morroblivion, you were only skipping six years.
I think that's a problem for later on, the most important thing if this project takes off is to get all the content in first regardless of time differences between 3rd/4th eras. Hell i'd even give a hand in doing something like that if it meant playing one very large game, to integrate all 3 games (without caring about lore) i would personally:
1. Remove all references from Oblivion/Skyrim in dialogue/books about previous game events i.e. you don't want to be reading about the Oblivion crisis in Skyrim whilst it's actually happening.
2. Integrate the games more. Being able to walk to all the different parts/ fast travel. Dragons in Seyda Neen, Oblivion Gates in Whiterun that sort of thing. Make NPCs aware of events from other game quests happening i.e. in Oblivion there is talk of a civil war happening in Skyrim, fits in nicely with the whole Imperial/Stormcloak thing.
3. Change some of the dates around in books, dialogue etc. i.e. events that happen between Oblivion & Skyrim could be redated to before Morrowind. (apart from red mountain exploding obviously)
4. In Skyrim, remove characters that appear in Sovengard that you haven't met or killed in Morrowind/Oblivion yet.
5. Item integration, i.e. items from different regions appear in all random loots/merchants.
6. Disable quests that have a precursor i.e. if you have never completed the Oblivion Crisis all references/Quests in Skyrim about The Mythic Dawn are unavailable/don't appear until the Oblivion Crisis is dealt with.
7. Remove all references to the Nerevarine in Oblivion/Skyrim.
8. Integrate guilds/factions i.e. complete the Oblivion line of guilds, with the other ones in Morrowind/Skyrim optional quests. i.e. Lucien Lachance can't appear to you as a ghost in Skyrim if he hasn't died in the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood questline. Also the other guilds in different provinces would recognise your status as a master of a guild.
9. Uriel Septim is the emperor (remove current emperor & accompanying quest to kill him), place him in the Imperial Palace in Cyrodiil, no NPCs mention of his death in Cyrodiil, other provinces recognise his status as emperor. To start the Oblivion main questline, get arrested in The Imperial City in Cyrodiil. Rewrite the Blades to be what they originally were as a secretive order hunting dragons, as in Skyrim they are no longer the Emperors' bodyguards. Would probably require some clever dialogue tweaks so they "come out of hiding" to serve the empire during the Oblivion Crisis, also removing all references to the Aldemeri Dominion wiping out The Blades on Cloud Ruler Temple etc.
10. Uneasy truce between The Empire and Aldemeri Dominion in same timeline.
11. Features from all games i.e. Skyrim's engine with Levitation, protocolled dialogue, quest markers/fast travel for all regions, attributes (if possible) etc. to create a rich RPG experience.
12. Creature integration i.e. Bone Lords appear in Skyrim dungeons etc.
13. MORE DAEDRA IN SKYRIM DAMMIT! lol
For those who aren't lore fanatics but would still like an integrated game that's still "Elder Scrolls" then sure this would be the hardest option & a lot of work but the end result would be outstanding.
As i said earlier though, this would come much later as an optional "addon" to Morrobliviskyrim to those who would wish a large game without time conflicts. We have to hope the project can actually begin really, and not until Morroblivion is done, that has to take major priority in getting that finished.
That would take a very long time and I think it would be easier just to recreate the games and have some kind of "magic portal" in game that would take you to Morrowind /Cyrodil during the times morrowind and oblivion take place.
Its not a bad idea though.
i know yeah i just think if it ever gets done, this expansion of sorts would be ideal for a non strict lore setup. I'm just getting into Elder scrolls modding so i'm learning and if this project gathers speed then this is something i will definately like to look into. Then time portals etc could be used for anyone preferring a strict lore setup/ less resource intensive setup. The best off all 3 worlds in a game, let's just see how far this andoran tool can really go you never know they could surprise us seems like they know what they're doing, amazing that they are sharing aswell.
My dream is to play through all three games in order on Skyrim's engine as the same character. As the immortal Neravarine, the 200 year gap between Oblivion and Skyrim doesn't bother me that much. ;) Gidz's idea is fine as an optional add-on, but it's nothing that I would ever play. (My own thoughts on how to handle the time gap is in another thread somewhere, but that's neither here nor there.)
You wonderful, brilliant people at Project Andoran get us the converted landscape, NPCs, items, and all that, and I'll work on getting some of the quests implemented. I don't have much time I can put into this, but I should be able to get a quest in here and there. Besides, I have ideas on how we could make use of some of Skyrim's new systems, like Radiant Story, to improve how Morrowind and Oblivion handle some of their quests and world interactions.
Exactly yeah choice on the time gap would great, i'm sure there is a gap between people who care about lore and those who aren't too strict on it. My idea would definately be the hardest, this is exactly why i want to get into modding instead of dreaming of someone doing something for you, just do it yourself right :)
TBH anyway the 3 games would be integrated together would be awesome, a portal or "time gate" with the use of an Elder Scroll is perfectly feasible.
Exactly! I'd share my ideas with you, but honestly, this is getting a bit off-topic. :P Want to make a new topic for this in this section of the forum, and we can discuss this at length? :)
So, to get things more on-topic, do we have a precise list of what the converter will convert and what we need to do by hand? I've seen what we get listed in general terms, but something more exact would be nice. If the answer is simply "Just wait and see," that's fine, too. I'm happy to be getting a converter at all.
If this has already been answered in this thread, I apologize.
Yeah this is getting a bit off topic getting way ahead of myself here haha :)
Yeah another topic would be great, i can imagine many more questions will be asked like this over the next year or so :)
I think the converter is still a WIP and may still yield unbelievable results, but as long as all the important stuff can go over (items, locations, armor etc) when this becomes apparant then a separate team could start manually converting the morrowind quests (and oblivion, if so desired).
Is anyone actually working on a convertor?
Yes, the andoran team are working on a converter of sorts and i hear are making pretty decent progress. It's how they are getting their Andoran TC in the Creation Engine, as it was originally going to be for Oblivion. I doubt quest conversion is possible (or atleast easy to do) because of the difference in the new Papyrus language but if most other things can be converted then that's a big bulk of the project.
Yeah morrowind with Skyrim features would be awesome! :D
I've actually began playing my Morrowind GOTY again, i'm one of those people for whom Morrowind never gets old regardless of the fact that it hasn't aged very well :)
@Steph: You should really read SOME of the thread next time...
Oh, here's a question. A quick search of the forums shows this hasn't come up, so my question:
Will the converter be able to generate navmeshes for the esms/esps it creates, or will we have to set up the navmesh ourselves?
Yeah, I figure it's probably a long shot. I was hoping that maybe they could figure out a way to convert the old pathing grid system into a nav mesh, but that's just pie-in-the-sky idealism.
first off, I managed to play skyrim without being connected through steam, I didnt even really have to do anything.
second. I am very busy, still have lots of college to do.
but, I have a "knack" for programing, for some reason I find it to be easyer than networking, even though I have like 3 years of networking.
I was told that I should try playing morrowind before hopping on a project, so I did, and I get the gist of some of the features of the game.
I probrobly wont have the time for a few years (2-4) to really work on this, but Im highly considering this as a project and would gladly help when I can.
someone please hand me an assignment and I will work on it as soon as I have the time, feel free to work on it yourself if I dont respond in a few months as my scedual is unpredictable.
Hi guys, made an account to just toss an idea around.
I see lots of posts about how to adequately merge the games in a coherent narrative. (ie. skyrim takes place in the 4th era, etc).
I think there is a very simple, and freaking awesome way to fix this.
Let's say that a hero from the future, was sent back in time to affect the stories of the past. In doing so, he inevitably discovers that he himself was the hero in the stories he read as a child. So the hero of morrowind, the hero of the oblivion crisis, and the dovakhiin were all one person. It also neatly ties up why we're using skyrim mechanics in the previous games.
A quest line could be created that involves meeting someone or something to create portals to other troubled times in tamriels past, and you could easily facilitate story travel, and actual world travel by creating a small "time" island somewhere.
My Two cents.
To handle the time gap maybe set a "mystic guide" at the beginning of Morrowind in the ship to tell the player of his "destiny" and at the end of morrowind (main quest) you get arrested for an unknown reason and put in the jail in cyrodiil (where Oblivion starts) or instead (if there is no Oblivion conversion) you are asked to find an elder scroll and meet a "mysterious man",whom asked you to find the elder scroll, at the border of Morrowind/Skyrim where the "man" reveals he is the "Mystic Guide" and also a Greybeard (perhaps even (the spirit of) Jurgen Windcaller himself) where he asks you to use the elder scroll, at which point it fades to black, you here voices and you wake up on the cart at the beginning of skyrim.
Maybe we should start a new thread to talk about possible ways to bridge the time between Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim. I think that this thread should be reserved for discussion of the converter itself at this point. :)
I agree with mooncat. Bridge ideas are neat, exciting, and a good way to discuss lore. However, the project isn't so much about bridging gaps as just replicating the game. A bridged gap should be a mod for Morroblivion, not Morroblivion itself. So a thread for mods that bridge that gap would be perfect.
I have good news. Converter's main features are almost working. But we're still facing some problems. So what works, what doesn't work at the moment and what is impossible to convert.
Most of main object types are converted, except these:
PGRD, ACHR, ACRE, DIAL, INFO, ANIO, ROAD, GMST, GLOB, CLAS, FACT, HAIR, EYES, RACE, SOUN, SKIL, MGEF, SCPT, LTEX, ENCH, SPEL, BSGN, SGST, BSGN, SKIL, APPA, ARMO, CLOT, CONT, GRAS, TREE, FURN, WEAP, AMMO, NPC_, CREA, LVLC, ALCH, SBSP, LVLI, WTHR, CLMT, REGN, INGR, MGEF, WATR, EFSH, ACRE, ACHR, ANIO, CSTY, PACK, IDLE, QUST, LVSP, LSCR
Let me describe what is listed here.
1. Some items could not been translated (or don't need to be) because of new engine general design, new graphics, new gameplay features. They are: Gameplay settings, global values, loading screens, roads and pathgrids, sounds, sigil stones, scripts, subspaces, apparatuses, weather and climate, regions, everything that is related to magic, effects and shaders, water types, land textures (that's pity); and everything related to NPCs and creatures, including: birthsigns, races, hairs, eyes, skills, factions and classes, combat styles, ai packages, idle animations, animated objects, character and creatures references.
2. Some items translation code is ready for now but it have some bugs so it don't work as it should. It is LANDs and, in general, the exterior cells conversion code. (We have translated the references and the one Tamriel cell's land though).
3. Some other items are skipped now, because there is no code for their translation, but it can be done without really big problems. They are armor and clothing, ammo, weapons, maybe alchemy and ingredients, furniture (it will require new models though).
4. Trees cannot be translated but we will replace them with skyrim tree, saving the original object editor ID, so you could easily replace needed trees later with "Find and Replace" function in the CK.
5. Pathgrids cannot be translated into navigational meshes. You will have to generate them using CK, it is not too difficult task.
6. We don't see any simple way to convert quests, dialogues and scripts at the moment.
I need someone who is proficient with hex-editors to check and verify files that Chuvakin produces. If everything will be ok, we will have working converter in 1-2 weeks.
This is awesome and very exciting!
Thank you for the update Anruin! And keep up the great work!
Thanks for the update!
I've updated the action plan, if anyone is interested. However, it is past my bedtime and I'm not terribly knowledgeable about these things, so I'm sure I've missed lots. That, and there are likely people able to come up with a better action plan than me, anyway. :P
No, I think you've laid out a pretty solid plan. Heck, no one else has even laid out a plan! So you are the man with a plan, which overrules anyone else since they have no outlined plan. :D
Guys, you better to get NPCs and quest translated. Why you waiting for the converter? Andoran team does great work without it. We are writing quests, recording sounding etc. Lot of work. So you could do something too.
Yeah Anruin, I don't quite get it? Don't we need the master file to start adding in quests and such?
Edit: I think I remember you telling me about having all the dialogue in a Word document. Is that so it's just a matter of copying and pasting the dialogue into the master file, when it's ready?
Oh, no, sorry SJ, I was talking to Anruin. It was something he told me before.
That's...a really good point. Now that we know the converter can't handle actors, we should start recreating NPCs, factions, and generic dialogue right away. The way Skyrim works, we can even start recreating the quests--we'll just have to set up the aliases to work with the Morroskyrim world space and cells when we have the converted .esm.
Just make sort of a plan. Distribute roles between guys you have in your team. E.g. one can type in dialogues and re-make quests. Other can make NPCs. Etc. As I see, at the moment I can give you converter and you can use it to translate (convert) base objects (not all, except types which I've mentioned before) and interiors. Also you can re-make NPCs and creatures and any stuff that cannot be converted but can be re-created without landscape and main master-file. Who said that you have to work on the project one portion by another? I mean, you can distribute your team in small cores. Like the multi-core processors are done. Every core can work on a different plugin-files, which later can be merged into single master. E.g. one core could work on NPCs, another could convert all the base objects and adjust their properties, third group could design general quests blueprints. Later when you will have a fully-operational converter, you could make one more core of the team. Those guys could convert the exteriors and work with them step-by-step. Region by region. This is my point of view.
If it's agreeable with everyone else, I can put together a new action plan based on what Anruin is suggesting. Skyrim is set up in such a way that we can actually accomplish quite a lot before we even have a landmass to work with.
I'm with you Mooncat, that sounds good. I'll probably start working with NPCs and their dialogue.
That's my job, I currently have Ammo in beta, and I'm starting on Weapons and Armor/clothes, but Trees are unfortunately just not possible from what I can see...
Look at other applications with similar relations. E.g. Word 2003 and Word 2010 in most cases are similar. But their files' formats are not. Doc is like more plain text with sort of tags, and Docx is XML-organized format as far as I know. Same thing we have here. What we can convert we are converting with our application. What we cannot convert automatically, we have to convert manually. I had pointed out which data items we CAN convert by writing code for the conversion. And which data items we CANNOT convert, because TOO DIFFERENT DATA ITEMS (FORMS) FORMATS, OBSOLETE DATA ITEMS (FORMS) TYPES, etc. There are A LOT of differences. If you know the way to convert the one old forms to new ones, you are welcome to advice us. But first please take your time to study the FILE FORMATS not the applications' interfaces. Over the whole internet there are not much CORRECT information about files formats, even on the UESP wiki information is often not full or even incorrect. We have spent much time studying the files by ourselves and we have some experience and knowledge about all this stuff.
E.g. look at the engines. Oblivion - SpeedTree technology: Seed parameter, SPT file as the base for a tree, canopy texture. Skyrim presents NEW technology. E.g. it is using NIF files for the trees, not SPTs. Furniture have NEW nifs markers and I really don't know if older markers converted with the older nifs will be understandable by the new engine. NPCs - Oblivion: older OC3's Impersonator lip-animation technology and in Skyrim the updated FaceFX are used. Oblivion had used FaceGen technology or something very similar. Skyrim uses some new technology, we (the Andoran team) have played very much with faces, creating new races etc. And I can say that it is very different. Characters abilities, skills etc. are different in the both engines. Also NPCs and Creatures were MERGED into single form type, NPC. Such a situatin we have with ARMOR and CLOTHING, but they have much less various features. ALSO NPCs are related to such forms like PACKAGES, COMBAT STYLES etc. which cannot be transferred, because they have a MUCH different format or are obsolete in new engine. Landscape textures have much new parameters, so for now I cannot make the code to transfer them onto new engine. So yes, there will be no textures on the land and you will have to paint them manually. About dialogues and quests I will repeat one more time: THEY ARE MUCH DIFFERENT. New forms and forms chunks' types, new dialogue and quest systems... most of things HAVE TO BE recreated, and I don't know how to do this automatically.
I had said that the conversion code for some object types which we converter doesn't translate at the moment will be written later. We at Andoran require landscape done before all the miscellaneous stuff that will take mine and other programmers' time. When we will get landscape conversion working we will finish the other items type that can be converted at least partially.
If ANYONE could update me with similatities in both formats, e.g. in quests and dialogues, maybe I will try to update the application to convert the quests, dialogues and all the other stuff. But as I see it is nearly impossible or at least it will take VERY MUCH time, so much I can't spend working with it.
Sorry if I had offended you. But it is not so simple as you think. If you think other way - prove it to me and I will change my point of view.
Also I want to add that 80% similatity in the interface DOES NOT MEAN that the FILE STRUCTURE is SIMILAR in 80% too. And thanks to Gaius who helps us with those miscellaneous forms for which we have no time at the moment. We appreciate your help ;)
Hi this project is amazing!! I can easily convert all of the .spt trees over to Oblivion nif format, if your tool can convert them to Skyrim .nif format. I have already done a few. One thing though, the converted .spt trees need to use NiBillboardNode, can your converter support that? It is similar to what is used in flames, so that nodes will always be rotated to face the camera creating a billboard effect for any attached objects, such as leaves. I see many Skyrim meshes use it so it may be similar between formats.
Thanks. We will try to do it when we will finish landscape converting code. NiBillboardNode lies on your shoulders ;) we will just convert the forms inside ES-files.
Mooncat, I think that it is good idea to have some plan of job to do in the nearest time. You guys can spend your time converting models with our nif-converter. RobertNeville has the copy. You can spend your time recreating NPCs and entering dialogues for them, putting into single ESP. Into that ESP you can later merge ESP(s ) with converted data that you will get with converter. Also I can provide you the converter as it is at the moment. You can convert most of translateable forms and interiors. So you will be able to make interiors at least. Later you will be able to merge-in the exteriors. But I think that it would be the best that you will decide what you will transfer first - Oblivion or Morrowind (Morroblivion). Maybe you will need to merge them into single file to have them converted without troubles.