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Morrowind to Skyrim Action Plan?

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Want to contribute? Download the current master here and let us know what task you're working on!

 

Hi guys,

I'd like to preface this by saying I'm not trying to take charge or tell anyone what to do or anything like that.  I've just been thinking about what steps we need to take once we have the initial converted mod files, and posting it here helps me organize my thoughts.  These are really suggestions more than anything, and I'm sure those of you who have been through this before with Morroblivion will have a better idea of what works and what doesn't.

So, the Project Andoran guys have told us what their tool can and can’t convert.  We don’t have the converted master yet, but that doesn’t mean we can’t start working!  We can start making base objects, connect generic dialogue, and—because of the special way Skyrim handles quest references—we can even start putting quests together.

Here are my thoughts on how to best organize the project.  If anyone wants to take a task, call it, and the bigger tasks can be split up as needed.  I’ve split tasks up into “projects,” and put the tasks for each project in rough order.  Like I said, these are more guidelines than anything else.

 

Project 1: Basic Tasks

Create Base .esm and Assign .esm “Master”—We should probably work off of one .esm and have one person who gathers our progress as .esp files and merges them.

Form Naming Conventions--We'll want to decide on form naming conventions for new data types.  For starters, I suggest we begin all new Morroskyrim forms with the prefix "MW," as this prefix isn't used by any forms in vanilla Skyrim.  (So for voices, Male Dunmer voice could be "MWDunmerMaleVoice" or somesuch.) 

Global Variables—Any global variables we’ll need.  Off the top of my head, I can only think of “IsInMorrowindWorld.”

Convert Meshes, Textures—Meshes and textures should be optimized before being added to this project.  In the meantime, use vanilla meshes and textures as placeholders.

Start in Morrowind Mod (Requires Converter)—A separate plugin that makes you start in Morrowind. Not strictly necessary, but handy.

Best Practices Guide (Optional)—A best practices guide to help everyone stay on the same page.  I think this is particularly important since Skyrim does present many new systems, and misunderstanding some of these systems could have some pretty nasty side effects (I’ve already seen a few popular mods with conflict-prone script implementation).

Retextures (Low Priority)--This is probably more important for other people than it is for me. :P  Update textures to match Skyrim standard.  Perhaps all the retextures done for Morroblivion already surpass the standard? I don't know, I'm not a graphics guy.

 

 

Project 2: Magic

Create Base Morrowind Magic Effects—Create the spell effects from Morrowind that we’ve lost.  For more complicated spells, we should just create placeholders for now.  (A note on Skyrim spell effects: range and cast type are part of the effect.  If the same spell can be cast both on touch and on target in Morrowind, it requires a different spell effect for each version in Skyrim.)

Create Morrowind Spells—Recreate the abilities, spells, powers, and diseases of Morrowind.

Create Morrowind Scrolls—Recreate the scrolls of Morrowind.

Create Morrowind Potions—Recreate the potions, drinks, and alchemy ingredients of Morrowind. Need to see if final converter will handle these.

Balance Spells (Low Priority)—Balance spells according to Skyrim’s game systems.

Balance Scrolls (Low Priority)—Balance scrolls according to Skyrim’s game systems.

Balance Potions (Low Priority)—Balance potions according to Skyrim’s game systems.

Morrowind Vampirism (Low Priority)—Recreate the 3 forms of Morrowind vampirism.

Bloodmoon Lycanthropy (Low Priority)—Recreate Bloodmoon lycanthropy.

Magic Keyword Check (Low Priority)—Make sure magic has proper keywords so they get perk bonuses and whatnot.

Blight Diseases--With Skyrim's keyword system, we can probably implement blight diseases as a separate thing that requires a different potion/spell to cure again.

 

 

 

Project 3: Items

Create Base Weapons—Create Morrowind weapons. For items we don’t have models of, use vanilla Skyrim models for now.  Classify crossbows and thrown weapons as normal bows for now (pending addition of crossbows in future patch and integration of throwing weapons mod into this project).  Need to see if final converter will handle these. In which case, this task is actually just creating base objects for crossbows and thrown weapons.

Create Base Armor—Create Morrowind armor and clothes.  For items we don’t have models of, use vanilla Skyrim models for now.  We have to make a decision here: implement lost armor types (pauldrons, separate gauntlets, greaves) as invisible gear until we have models for them, or stick to Skyrim’s combined body armor for now.  Need to see if final converter will handle these. In which case, this task is actually just creating base objects for pauldrons, gauntlets, belts, and maybe greaves.

Implement Misc Objects—Create all other Morrowind objects.  Determine what pre-existing Skyrim objects can be used instead (like soul gems, for instance) and document these.

Item Level Lists—Create Morrowind item level lists.

Enchant Weapons—Add enchantments to weapons, depending on the progress of Project 2.

Enchant Armor—Add enchantments to armor and clothes, depending on the progress of Project 2.

Balance Gear (Low Priority)—Balance weapons, armor, and level lists to Skyrim standards.

Models for Morrowind Weapons (Low Priority)—Implement models for Morrowind weapons.

Models for Morrowind Armor (Low Priority)—Implement models for Morrowind armor and clothing.  For now, this should include separated greaves/cuirass, but since we probably don’t have pauldron or gauntlet meshes handy, let’s save that for later.

Models for Pauldrons/Gauntlets (Low Priority)—Implement models for Morrowind pauldrons, gauntlets, and sleeveless armor.

Implement Throwing Weapons (Low Priority)—Implement code for throwing weapons.

Implement Crossbows (Low Priority)—Implement crossbows when patch comes out.

Crafting Recipes (Low Priority)—Create crafting recipes for Morrowind items.

Item Keyword Check (Low Priority)—Make sure items have proper keywords so they get perk bonuses and whatnot.

 

Project 4: Actors

Create Voice Types—Voice types are named "MWGenderRaceVoice."  For example, Dunmer males should use "MWMaleDunmerVoice."  Unique voice types have also been made for Vivec, Dagoth Ur, and Almalexia.

Create Factions—Recreate all of the factions that exist in Morrowind.  Set faction relations.

Create Creature Types—Create a stand-in race for every creature type that appears in Morrowind. For now, use vanilla Skyrim models and animations until we can get proper ones (unless they already exist).

Plan Actor Classes—Either create new classes exclusively for Morrowind NPCs, or create a table for what Skyrim classes match what Morrowind classes.  Do the same for combat AI.

Create Base NPCs—Create base NPC objects.  Pay attention to new Skyrim options like “Unique” (Very important! All unique/named NPCs should have this checked!) and “Voice Type.”  If they’re ready, try to populate the NPC’s faction list, inventory, and spell list, as well.

Create Base Creatures—Create base creature objects.

Populate Actor Inventories—Based on the progress of Project 3, populate actor inventories.

Populate Actor Spell Lists—Based on the progress of Project 2, populate actor spell lists.

Create Actor Level Lists—Create actor level lists that appear in Morrowind.  (Do any level lists appear in Morrowind?)

Place Actor References (Requires Converter)—Place actor references at appropriate locations in the world.

Set Up Services (Requires Converter)—Set up training, merchant, and fast travel services for all applicable NPCs.

Unique Creature Models and Animations—Add unique models and animations for Morrowind-specific creatures.

Balance Actor Power (Low Priority)—Balance actors/actor level lists according to Skyrim’s game systems.

NPC AI Packages (Low Priority)—Once we have Morroblivion converted to Skyrim, we can think about giving NPCs AI routines.

NPC Faces (Low Priority)—Give NPCs unique looks.

Actor Keyword Check (Low Priority)—Make sure actors have proper keywords so they are affected by correct spells.

NPC Relationships (Low Priority)--Group NPCs in relationships in the CK.  Probably won't be needed for what we're doing, but this level of thoroughness could open up possibilities for us in the future.

 

Project 5: Content

Base Locations—Create locations for all cities and dungeons, as well as a parent Vvardenfell location.  We don’t need to populate this with data yet; but having them early will let us implement quests before the worldspace is converted.

Dialogue Implementation--Add all non-quest dialogue to the game.  All generic dialogue should be kept in container quests so that things are nice and organized.  NOTE: Unlike in previous games, never check for character race when determining who can speak a line!  Instead, check for voice type—that way, only Morrowind characters will speak Morrowind dialogue.

Quest Implementation--Add the Morrowind quests to the game.  Using the Alias system, we can have these mostly implemented without having access to the worldspace.  Testing them to make sure they work, however, is another matter…

 

Connect Aliases to World (Requires Converter)—Any aliases that need to be connected to the world (x-markers, for instance) should be hooked up to their appropriate references.

Populate Locations (Requires Converter)—Populate locations with references, encounter zones, and cells.

Criminal System (Requires Converter)--Proper crime and punishment system will need to be implemented.  Might as well have the Imperials, Ordinators, and each House count as its own criminal faction while we're at it, eh?

Location Keyword Check (Low Priority)—Make sure locations have proper keywords.

Block SM Event Nodes (Low Priority)--Create blocks in the SM Event Nodes to prevent Skyrim events from occuring while in Morrowind.  I don't think we want dragons swooping down on 3rd era Balmora or Astrid sending assassins to kill you in her past.  We can key these blocks to trigger Morrowind-specific events, if we find a use for them.

 

Project 6: Environment (All require converter, of course)

NavMesh Generation--Generate a navigation mesh so NPCs can actually move around the world.

New Item Placement—Place the items that the converter couldn’t handle into the world.

Item Adjustment—Adjust the positioning of any items that couldn’t be replaced.

Land Textures—Set up appropriate land textures.

Working Doors—Make sure doors can open and close.

Working Furniture (Low Priority)—Get furniture working properly.

New Trees (Low Priority)—Place more Morrowind-esque trees in place of the stock Skyrim trees.

Crafting Workstations (Low Priority)--Placement of crafting workstations for all crafting skills in suitable places throughout the world.

Mining Locations (Low Priority)--Morrowind already has ebony and glass (malachite now, I guess) mines.  We might want to consider adding veins for all the other ores.

Weather & Climate (Low Priority)--Set up proper weather for the various regions.

Trapping Treasure Chests (Low Priority)--Add Skyrim-style traps to the treasure chests that were originally trapped in Morrowind.

Running Rivers (Low Priority)--Implement Skyrim-style running rivers.

Environment Population (Low Priority)--Populate the environments with critters and ambient sounds.

 

 

 

Project 7: Additional Features

Loading Screens--Port the loading screens from Morrowind and set them to load when the player is in the Morrowind world.  Note that this will require Morrowind-specific 3d models, as well.

Morrowind Birthsigns--If we get support for this, create birthsigns for Morrowind?  Up for discussion.  Should we: (A) allow the player to gain the power of a guardian stone as their birthsign; (B) recreate the Morrowind birthsigns as a separate bonus from the guardian stones, which might be OP if the player did Skyrim before Morrowind; or (C) remove the birthsign part of getting off the boat entirely?

Taking Over Houses--With Radiant Story, we may be able to have an NPC's home (or at least the bed and cell) change ownership to the player upon death, like in Morrowind. Is this something we want?

Marriage--Implement the marriage system.  (There's another way to get a place to live!)

Radiant Encounters--Implement Skyrim-style wilderness encounters.

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/14/2014 - 21:15
RammS
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I think, in Base Content you

I think, in Base Content you should add "Optimization of meshes, textures etc.". It's very important, and if we'll got lags - it'll be very bad.

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Added. I'm assuming

Added. I'm assuming optimization is a different step than full-on retexturing?  I don't know, I'm not a graphics guy.

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Yes=)I think, we should use

Yes=)

I think, we should use as many as possible textures from Skyrim in Vvardenfell, because we will get higher qualitty than standard morrowind textures and overhauled and also  don't need to optimize them. At the end we can try to take a permission to use already optimized new morrowind's models from projects such as Andoran etc.

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Put on the list:

Put on the list:

Removal of Oblivion-Voice-Lines / AI Topics.

 

For some strange reason ( at least to me it is strange ) Morroblivion NPC’s use Oblivion Voice Lines / AI Topics. Just remove the Morrowind_od.esm voice folder and the NPC’s still talk like they do in Oblivion. Maybe we should remove or replace those lines with new ones.

 

The Computer-Generated-Voiced-Dialogue-Project I am working on does not cover that part, as it is not part of normal Morroblivion dialogue.

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On: "The basic question is,
On: "The basic question is, do we value staying true to Morrowind to every single detail, or making the experience more in-line with Skyrim while staying true to Morrowind in spirit?" I would personally want the second option to be honest. If I want an experience just like morrowinds, I would go and play the original game. I'm fascinated when I have heard about the new mechanics and I want to play the game with those new mechanics. Also, what should be put onto the list is the ability to choose between Morrowind and Skyrim storylines (and later, Oblivion when and if it's ported over) as in where the PC first starts off. You know, similar to Thermador's transport mod.
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RammS wrote:I think, we

RammS wrote:

I think, we should use as many as possible textures from Skyrim in Vvardenfell, because we will get higher qualitty then standard morrowind textures and overhauled and also  don't need to optimize them. At the end we can try to take a permission to use already optimized new morrowind's models from projects such as Andoran etc.

That sounds fantastic. If we can do this, I'm 100% for it!

 

Sjors Boomschors wrote:

Put on the list:

Removal of Oblivion-Voice-Lines / AI Topics.

 

For some strange reason ( at least to me it is strange ) Morroblivion NPC’s use Oblivion Voice Lines / AI Topics. Just remove the Morrowind_od.esm voice folder and the NPC’s still talk like they do in Oblivion. Maybe we should remove or replace those lines with new ones.

 

The Computer-Generated-Voiced-Dialogue-Project I am working on does not cover that part, as it is not part of normal Morroblivion dialogue.

My understanding is that the converter won't be able to convert dialogue in the first place?  In either case, it should be much easier to prevent this in Skyrim than it was in Oblivion.  The way the CK is set up, voices are no longer race-specific--rather, there's a new form called VoiceType.  Every NPC is assigned a VoiceType, and dialogue is checked to see if it matches the VoiceType before it's played.  As long as all of Morroskyrim's VoiceTypes are unique to Morrowind, we should be able to do this fairly easily.

I'll add this as a note to setting up VoiceTypes in the OP.

EnvyDeveloper wrote:

On: "The basic question is, do we value staying true to Morrowind to every single detail, or making the experience more in-line with Skyrim while staying true to Morrowind in spirit?" I would personally want the second option to be honest. If I want an experience just like morrowinds, I would go and play the original game. I'm fascinated when I have heard about the new mechanics and I want to play the game with those new mechanics.
You and I are of the same mind on this subject. I'd love to see things like Radiant Story put to use in Morrowind.

EnvyDeveloper wrote:

Also, what should be put onto the list is the ability to choose between Morrowind and Skyrim storylines (and later, Oblivion when and if it's ported over) as in where the PC first starts off. You know, similar to Thermador's transport mod.
Personally, I think that those need to stay as separate mods.  Because there's such a huge time jump between Morrowind/Oblivion and Skyrim, there should be different transport mods to cater to different tastes.  Obviously, though, we'll want a basic "start in Morrowind" mod just for testing purposes, so I'll put that up there.

 

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Mooncat wrote:"Voice (we

Mooncat wrote:

"Voice (we should create a new VoiceType for each Morrowind race so that they don't start spouting off lines from Skyrim/Oblivion)"

I could do that since I pretty much did that with Morroblivion with my MW Voiced Greetings and Combat mod.

SB wrote:

"For some strange reason ( at least to me it is strange ) Morroblivion NPC’s use Oblivion Voice Lines / AI Topics."

I'm hurt bro. Haven't you used my mod? :D

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I don't think Oblivion had

I don't think Oblivion had Skyrim-style VoiceTypes?  VoiceType is actually a new type of form found in the CK:

http://www.creationkit.com/VoiceType

By creating a unique Morrowind VoiceType for each race/sex, we should be able to prevent our NPCs from using any standard Skyrim dialogue.

Though yes, I absolutely want to see Morrowind's voiced greetings and combat in Morroskyrim, too. :D

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I meant, once we have an esm

I meant, once we have an esm to work with, I'll go ahead and start taking out Skyrim's dialogue and putting Morrowind's in.

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I don't think you'll have to

I don't think you'll have to take any dialogue out. Once we set their VoiceTypes, the new NPCs should have no dialogue, so all we'll have to do is add the new dialogue in. :)  That was my point.

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Ah ok
Ah ok :D So does silent dialogue work fine in Skyrim? Or does it run fast like in Oblivion?
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It runs fast, but somebody's

It runs fast, but somebody's already made a silent VO mod with a silly name.  It looks like there are still some wrinkles to iron out, but it's well on its way to being stable, I'd say.


Hmm... I'm going to add Skyrim-style flowing water to "Cool but Unimportant."  To be honest, I'm actually getting kind of excited about quest implementation.  Having my character roam around Vvardenfell, adding quests as I go... :P  A hopelessly idealistic view of the situation, to be sure.

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robertneville777 wrote:I'm

robertneville777 wrote:


I'm hurt bro. Haven't you used my mod? :D


Correct I never used your mod, or any other mod then Morrowind_ob.esm. My Geforce 8800GTX is still dead, and has not been replaced for over 3 years now, I use a Geforce 6200 128 MB. I have been modding Oblivion content for the last couple of years. I will upgrade my pc when Skyrim gets fixed off all bugs and issues, so I can play that game and the converted Oblivion / Morrowind content to its full extent.
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Mooncat, what about using the
Mooncat, what about using the Skyrim feature of marriage in Morrowind NPCs? It's a very fascinating feature in Skyrim. Though, of course there has to be some sort of condition involved like finishing a quest for them.
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I'd certainly be interested

I'd certainly be interested in such a feature, but what does everyone else think?  Does that belong on the action plan, or should marriage be left as a separate mod for Morroskyrim?  (I'd put it under "Cool but Unimportant." (I really should change that to "Cool but Low Priority!"))

 

[EDIT]

Went ahead and added it, along with radiant events.

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I'd go for having the general

I'd go for having the general design philosophy of implementing more advanced Skyrim features in Morrowind. I personally feel that that should be secondary (which this plan seems to follow) to converting the base content, but if there's a situation where we would have to spend a lot of work implementing something as it was in Morrowind THEN redo that work in a way that's enhanced with Skyrim's embellishments, then it would make sense to go straight into the enhanced version whenever possible.

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My thoughts are the same. 

My thoughts are the same.  Then we reach a question like--in the case of Speech checks, are we better off engineering a new disposition system or making a persuasion check any time a quest is dependent on player's disposition with an NPC?  I think they'd ultimately be equally easy to implement, but we'll probably want to decide that before we move forward on quest implementation.

Anyway, I found a thread relevent to the "Restoring Lost Armor Types" task:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1344290-body-part-ids-for-u...

We'll want to see what these folks decide, then stick to this standard so our pauldrons have maximum compatibility with other mods.

 

[EDIT: UPDATE]

Been tinkering with the CK a bit, trying to figure something out for my own mod.  Here are some thoughts that occured to me as I did so:

- By default, weapon perks in Skyrim affect specific weapon types, rather than equip types.  For example, the 'Barbarian' perk affects warhammers, greatswords, and battleaxes specifically.  If we add Morrowind-specific weapons like halberds, spears, and staves as two-handed weapons, we'll have to mark them as warhammers, greatswords, or battleaxes, or else they won't benefit from perks at all (and thus, will be severely underpowered).

- The armor set bonus perks in Skyrim require that the player wear one item with each of the following keywords: ArmorCuirass, ArmorGauntlets, ArmorBoots, and ArmorHelmet.  If we bring back Morrowind-style equipment slots, then we'll have to remember to apply ArmorGauntlets to either hand.  Interestingly, this means Morroblivion players will be able to get armor set bonuses while wearing no greaves and only one gauntlet.

- The above doesn't apply to the 2 'Matching Set' perks, which provide an armor bonus for wearing all of one type of armor.  These check to see if the player is wearing 4 pieces of equipment with a given armor material keyword.  So, it'll trigger if you're wearing 4 'ArmorMaterialElven' or 4 'ArmorMaterialScaled,' etc.  This gives us 2 challenges to consider: what about equipment that doesn't fit into Skyrim's sets (Adamantium armor, for instance)?  What about the fact that a full suit of Morrowind armor would actually involve 8 pieces rather than 4?  I propose adding an invisible perk that gets added under the normal 'Matching Set' perk, that detects Morrowind matching pieces in the correct quantity instead.

- Perks like Fists of Steel add static bonuses based on a special keyword attached to each gauntlet (for instance, Iron Gauntlets have a perk named 'PerkFistsIron').  A few ways we can tackle this: (1) add the appropriate keyword to our gauntlets; (2) add the appropriate keyword to just right-handed gauntlets; or (3) create a new ability that calculates each hand individually that runs in the background.  Option 1 is abusable (gain both Ebony and Daedric punching power by equipping a different type of gauntlet in each hand).  Option 2 works, but what if you only have a left-hand gauntlet?  Option 3 is most ideal, but implementing it in a non-conflicting way could be a pain (trivial if we figure out the previous item, I suppose).

- It's possible to create a perk that modifies the potency of a self-made enchantment based on the keywords an item has.  If we really wanted to, we could class different items so that different pieces have different enchantment potential, just like in Morrowind.  Of course, that could cause even more balance issues when the player returns to Skyrim... More pertinent, we could make up for having extra enchantment slots by decreasing the potency of enchantment on those items--i.e., each gauntlet could only be enchanted for 50%, greaves + cuirass is 50% each, maybe 10% for each pauldron, things like that.

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Hey Mooncat, good work on
Hey Mooncat, good work on digging into this problem and trying to make sense out of all this. I find it amazing that there is a possibility that we can have pauldrons, individual gauntlets, cuirasses, greaves, etc. If we can do this, by all means lets go for it. This would be closer to Morrowind than Morroblivion is. Again, IF we can pull it off. EDIT: This would also be a good feature because a LOT of Morrowind NPC's mix and match their armor, or only wear the bare essentials. For example, Fedris Hler wears a brown robe and one glass pauldron. Some guys have only a cuirass and no pauldrons. You currently can't do this in Oblivion or Skyrim. So that would be great if we could implement the old armor system. That would probably be even beneficial for other modders. Is there a possibility to introduce a new class of weapons -- such as crossbows and spears -- that will have its own animations? I remember this was a problem in Oblivion that no one could really get around.
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It's possible to include new

It's possible to include new skills and types of weapons with their own animation. It was presented on Game Jam. As I know Andoran team also wants to include futures like this. So I Think we can try to cooperate.

Finally, Mooncat this is great finding! If we can create Morrowind's style armor structure it will be amazing

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Great initiative Mooncat!It's

Great initiative Mooncat!

It's exciting to see everyone signing up!

At this point I'm not ready to sign up to help, but I am still checking stuff and its exciting to see people moving forward!

(I have two mods that I'm working on right now to familiarze myself with the CK; after that I may be up for helping, though these mods are taking way more time than I thought they would, so it may be a while).

Anyhow, I keep wondering if we should make a sister forum for Morrim or whatever we're calling it, so that bug reports and everything else arn't posted about the wrong games in the wrong places,  etc.

But yeah, this thread makes me really excited!

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robertneville777 wrote:Hey

robertneville777 wrote:

Hey Mooncat, good work on digging into this problem and trying to make sense out of all this. I find it amazing that there is a possibility that we can have pauldrons, individual gauntlets, cuirasses, greaves, etc. If we can do this, by all means lets go for it. This would be closer to Morrowind than Morroblivion is. Again, IF we can pull it off. EDIT: This would also be a good feature because a LOT of Morrowind NPC's mix and match their armor, or only wear the bare essentials. For example, Fedris Hler wears a brown robe and one glass pauldron. Some guys have only a cuirass and no pauldrons.

It's worth mentioning that I don't think implementing Morrowind's full layering system will be an easy task--separate pauldrons, greaves, and gauntlets are one thing, but wearing clothes then armor then robes might be a nightmare to model properly.  Further, unless we do crazy scripting magic, you'll probably be able to wear Morrowind robes on top of Skyrim robes, which is a little silly.  Not to mention the fact that we'll need someone to create and rig the models for separate pauldrons, etc. in the first place.

That said, modeling isn't my field, so hopefully I'm wrong on this point. ;)

robertneville777 wrote:

Is there a possibility to introduce a new class of weapons -- such as crossbows and spears -- that will have its own animations? I remember this was a problem in Oblivion that no one could really get around.

As RammS mentioned, this should be doable.  If we're lucky, Bethesda will get around to releasing spears on their own, and we can crib their animations.  I don't know where we'll get crossbow animations, though--is anyone here an animator?  More importantly, is anyone here an animator whose time wouldn't be better spent on a more important part of this project?

RammS wrote:

It's possible to include new skills and types of weapons with their own animation. It was presented on Game Jam. As I know Andoran team also wants to include futures like this. So I Think we can try to cooperate.

What skills, if any, we want to add probably bears further discussion.  Certain skills, I think, would be fundamentally incompatible with the way Skyrim does things--short blade, long blade, axe, spear, and blunt come to mind.  Personally, I wouldn't want them in Morroskyrim, because I'm not looking for an overhaul.  I'm looking for Morrowind in Skyrim's engine.  That said, I would be open to a return of Unarmored, Hand-to-hand, Acrobatics, and Athletics, since none of those skills are fully replaced by anything in vanilla Skyrim.

Keep in mind that we still have no idea how Bethsoft implemented the new Lycanthropy skill in Game Jam.  It may not be practical for our purposes, for all we know.

Ice wrote:

Great initiative Mooncat!

It's exciting to see everyone signing up!

At this point I'm not ready to sign up to help, but I am still checking stuff and its exciting to see people moving forward!

Thank you. :)  I can't say how much time I'll have to work on this when we do finally get our hands on the converted .esm.  All I did was put down my thoughts on how to organize this once we do begin.

Ice wrote:

(I have two mods that I'm working on right now to familiarze myself with the CK; after that I may be up for helping, though these mods are taking way more time than I thought they would, so it may be a while).

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Ice wrote:

Anyhow, I keep wondering if we should make a sister forum for Morrim or whatever we're calling it, so that bug reports and everything else arn't posted about the wrong games in the wrong places,  etc.

That's not a bad idea. Or at least create a toggle so you can switch between projects (right now when you create an issue, the only available project is Morroblivion--which makes sense, of course :P ).

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Quote:Is there a possibility

Quote:

Is there a possibility to introduce a new class of weapons -- such as crossbows and spears -- that will have its own animations? I remember this was a problem in Oblivion that no one could really get around.

 

Response:

I think it was posible to change weapon animations in Oblivion. Unlucky I cant remember the name of the mod. I do have it somewhere on my PC.

 

Quote:

Is anyone here an animator?  More importantly, is anyone here an animator whose time wouldn't be better spent on a more important part of this project?

 

Response:

I do know how to animate for Oblivion, but I also know that it is very hard to animate a skeleton bone for bone. I can do wing animations and moving simple stuff. I never made movement animations, not even for my own Oblivion Crossbow mod.

 

Link:
CCAO - Cotyounoyume Combat Animation Overhaul v0.993
http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=36261

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Might have some good news in

Might have some good news in the next week!

http://kotaku.com/5905761/skyrim-patch-files-hint-at-incoming-snow-elf-prince-and-crossbows

Looks like there are crossbow animations in an upcoming patch.  Now we just need spears, and all our missing weapon types should be covered!

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Any other game we'ed be

Any other game we'ed be paying for these patches.

Love or hate Bethesda, you've got to admit at least some of the stuff they do is sweet. :D

Thanks Mooncat!

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changes?

I just thought of that...

Porting Morrowind and Oblivion to Skyrim? If that's possible...are you going to make the major changes that happened since TES3 and TES4?

Let me explain...

-in the game Morrowind, the game is set, in the world's history, in the 3rd era, Year 427 (or 3E 427)

-In the game Oblivion, it's set in 3E 433, where the 3rd Era end.

But in Skyrim, 201 years later (4E 201), and a lot of ugly stuff happened between those! Like Red Mountain erupted and destroyed most of Vvardenfell, a lot of peoples fled, Argonians invaded south of Morrowind. So yeah, it changed a whole lot since then, since the Empire is crumbling like a castle of cards!

look here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era

I understand it would be a whole lot easier just to port those 2 lands into Skyrim...but then for real fans of TES series...it would be like trying to put together 3 different timelines together. If you want the actual lands to be consistent with Skyrim's game timeline, you'll have to do a lot of changes, tweakings and probably "destruction" as well.

Are you going to take in the Tamriel Rebuilt project in as well? They are building the mainland of Morrowind, as i type this, they released the North-East part of Morrowind, and they are finishing the middle-East part around where Necrom is located.

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Discussion for the time gap

Discussion for the time gap is in a thread here, JSUK ;)

http://morroblivion.com/forums/conversion-to-skyrim/general/...

Time gap IMO is purely subjective according to a player's tastes, for example timeline integration or ideas of "being frozen then thawed" 200 years later after completing Cyrodiil & Vvardenfell and moving onto Skyrim. All are acceptable ideas depending on what you like so sorting the "time gap" is perfectly feasible without portraying the aftermath of Red Mountain's explosion etc.

Tamriel Rebuilt isn't officially supported by both the Morroblivion & Tamriel Rebuilt teams, but TR do state you are free to try to convert the maps for yourself, but i fear when TR is complete this will be too much work, would probably take more effort to fully convert TR than the whole of Vvardenfell itself so i wouldn't bank on it.

 

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Tamriel Rebuilt project

Tamriel Rebuilt project should at least be recognized as some kind of add-on to the Morrowind game, because their work are seamless to the lore, and they are building what Bethesda should have built years ago.

I think it's sad that Bethesda never made the entire Morrowind, and don't recognize, at least, Tamriel Rebuilt project as an unofficial add-on to TES3. Well yeah, all the mods are unofficial, but i consider this more like a whole add-on to the game.

So the Tamriel Rebuilt project is "What Morrowind should have been if Bethesda built the whole thing" in my opinion.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/b84e9e186419458

Yes, what you see on the hill on the left is Old Ebonheart! But it's not released yet, i was able to get the uncompiled part of Old Ebonheart and used it in the game, so i just used it for background objects only, so it doesn't look "empty" around Vvardenfell. The exterior is there, but there's no NPC and nothing work when you get there (doors doesn't work, etc...)

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I completely agree Tamriel

I completely agree Tamriel Rebuilt is awesome, still got Morrowind installed and always play with TR, i think the Televannis map alone has 100+ new quests and the areas are really well done and fit with the "morrowind" look & feel. I would love the completed TR to be converted aswell, was just saying a separate team would need to tackle this because it would take a long time in itself - but we would get no help at all from the TR team because they have specifically stated that it is a Morrowind only mod and will not use such converters to bring TR to Morroblivion. But we are free to convert it ourselves, so we don't need permission.

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Well, it's updated. I'm

Well, it's updated. I'm exhausted, so I don't think I'll re-read this tonight--I hope it's not too big of a mess.  If it is, please, I'm open to suggestions on a better approach. :)  I'm sure I've glossed over or missed important tasks, too, so let me know if anything is missing and/or misclassified.

I guess all that remains is to complete those first two tasks (create .esm and decide on formid naming conventions), then we can jump into it.  Though this action plan doesn't speak to how we know who's doing what, but I guess that's another matter... :P

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Mooncat, I have one more week

Mooncat, I have one more week of school, but then summer starts for me, so I'll have time to attack this full force. Since Anruin has told us that the converter won't be able to convert NPCs, we should start making the NPCs and attaching dialogue to them, correct? Just want to make sure I'm on the same page. If that's what we're looking at, I'll start making NPCs and dialogue. So are you going to make the master file for the moment, so we can start merging in our plugins?

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hey guys, i dont know if you

hey guys, i dont know if you already have a land converter, but i've found this project on the Skyrim nexus forum, and the guy making this have used a converter to make vvarderfell in skyrim, it's called TESAnnwyn.

hope this can be of any help, http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/587614-morrowind-the-legend-of-st-jiub/

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Been thinking, and this is a

Been thinking, and this is a total shot in the dark, is it possible to create a script interpreter for Skyrim? Something like SKSE or Morrowind Enhanced that could handle both obscript & papyrus, so Oblivion scripts could run with the Script Extender running? I know it probably isn't, but i thought i would ask anyway.

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robertneville777

robertneville777 wrote:

Mooncat, I have one more week of school, but then summer starts for me, so I'll have time to attack this full force. Since Anruin has told us that the converter won't be able to convert NPCs, we should start making the NPCs and attaching dialogue to them, correct? Just want to make sure I'm on the same page. If that's what we're looking at, I'll start making NPCs and dialogue. So are you going to make the master file for the moment, so we can start merging in our plugins?

NPCs and dialogue is a good place to start.  I can try to put the .esm together, but I have limited time and I've never done it before, so it may take me a few days to put together. :P  I'll post a link here when it's ready.

[EDIT] I lied!  It turns out that making an .esm was super easy.  I've uploaded it here.

vonbalt wrote:

hey guys, i dont know if you already have a land converter, but i've found this project on the Skyrim nexus forum, and the guy making this have used a converter to make vvarderfell in skyrim, it's called TESAnnwyn.

hope this can be of any help, http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/587614-morrowind-the-legend-of-st-jiub/

Perhaps this link should go in the Project Andoran conversion tool thread?  That's where discussion of automatic conversion is going on.  I believe I read that they're having some trouble with exterior cells, so this could be a godsend. :)

gidz89 wrote:

Been thinking, and this is a total shot in the dark, is it possible to create a script interpreter for Skyrim? Something like SKSE or Morrowind Enhanced that could handle both obscript & papyrus, so Oblivion scripts could run with the Script Extender running? I know it probably isn't, but i thought i would ask anyway.

I don't have the knowhow to speak with certainty on this, and even if I did, getting it working seamlessly and effeciently sounds like it might be an undertaking all its own.  Someone more knowledgeable about such things might have ideas?
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If we really want to do it

If we really want to do it all by hand, then lets get these NPC’s and dialogues sorted first.

 

Below the steps, how I think it could be done:

 

Step 1#:

Export the full Morroblivion Dialogue Export File, without Oblivion lines.

( Unfortunately, I have been trying to do this for a entire year )

 

Some one with magic fingers will need to do this, but I will try one last time myself.

 

Step 2#:

Export the full Skyrim Dialogue Export File.

( This can be done in less then 1 min )

 

Step 3#:

Compare the Morroblivion Export to the Skyrim Dialogue Export File.

( This can be done in EXEL )

 

Step 4#:

Manualy convert the Morroblivion Export to the Skyrim Dialogue standard.

( This can be done in EXEL )

 

Step 5#:

Manualy input the Morroblivion NPC’s into the Skyrim Sonstruction Set.

 

Step 6#:

Manualy input the Morroblivion Dialogue into the Skyrim Sonstruction Set.

 

 

 

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sb that sounds like a great

sb that sounds like a great plan, we could probably do a lot of the dialogue and quests without the converted esm/esp right?

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Well I get start to the

I start feeling we should wait until we have something .ESM converted. We can always create new content by manual conversion but I have no idea on merging npc content in the future, is that even possible?

 

EDIT:

Step 1# just failed again on my side, no hope here on progress on that part. Even the Computer-Generated-Voice-Project does not get any work done because of the Morroblivion dialogue failing to export.

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i'm sure tools would become

i'm sure tools would become available to merge an esp into the main esm. i bet that dialogue export file must be winding you up somewhat now there must be some way of doing it

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Yup I get insane because of

Yup I get insane because of this issue.

It probably takes around 6 to 8 hours to get the full export file.

After 1 hour the Construction Set gives an ERROR and stops.

In the Skyrim Construction set it only takes 1 min for a full export.

 

EDIT:

Yes, I tried the normal and Construction Set Extender.

Shademe did not alter the export process in any way.

 

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well there is the faster

well there is the faster option in the CS:

Open CS > File > Export > Dialogue (morroblivion would need to be activated)

it should only take a minute or so but the longer method is more accurate i believe.

have you tried the construction set extender?

http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=36370

i think it gives more options for exporting the dialogue file:

Open CS > Character > Quest > Highlight Specific Quest > Click Export Quest Dialog button

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I think I already tried all

I think I already tried all methods of exporting dialogue; the problem is I need the info generated by one specific export process.

Open CS > Character > Export Dialogue…
( I need to use this one, its very time consuming and gives a ERROR after a hour )

Open CS > File > Export > Dialogue
( This one is not perfect but works, resulted in 42GB Computer-Generated-Dialogue )

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42GB? damn thats is very big.

42GB? damn thats is very big. Is there a way to edit it down to just what you need?

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If I know what race / sex has

If I know what race / sex has to say which of the dialogue lines, then yes I can. Unfortunately I need an Export Dialogue… file that has that kind of information in it. Only the ( Open CS > Character > Export Dialogue… ) provides that. After one year I am back at step 1, I did skip this step to keep going by using another export file but the result of that decision was to be expected.

Now we are planning on manually inputting the dialogue lines for the Skyrim conversion, having this file would make things allot easier. As it tells the user NPC Name, Race, Sex, Topic, Subject, File name, File Location, The dialogue, Mood set and additional information. This files can be converted to the Skyrim standard and used to fill in the data requested.

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ah right, mmmmm.....  have

ah right, mmmmm.....  have you asked anyone else to try to get the export done for you? It might work for them.

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No I did not ask that

No I did not ask that question recently.

 

On the first page of the following topic there was some talking about it:

http://morroblivion.com/forums/morroblivion/mods/2322

 

Open CS > Character > Export Dialogue…

 

NOTE:

I advise to use an Oblivion.ESM without any dialogue in it. You can use Tes4Edit to remove all dialogue from the Oblivion.ESM. If you do not remove the Oblivion.ESM dialogue exporting will take ~16 hours. Oblivion.ESM takes on his own ~8 hours to export.

 

If you do manage to export ( Oblivion.ESM & Morrowind_ob.ESM ) the full thing in 16 hour then the result of that will be good to use.

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How about taking the
How about taking the Morroblivion master file, remove the dependency on Oblivion and export from there?
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I just tried that again, and

The Morrowind_ob.ESM will not load into the Construction Set without a master dependency, I tried that already a few times.

EDIT:
It must be some sort of Construction Set memory issue.
Because every time the ERROR happens the memory jumps up.
I cut the dialogue in smaller parts so it is a totally random ERROR.

I will not try to export the Dialogue anymore, as it looks pointless on this end.
Hopefully someone ells will try to do it and post the file, so we all can use it.

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it may be your system, but

it may be your system, but then again if you can run morroblivion then you definately have the right spec

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This is probably a stupid

This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming that if we contribute something you can merge our esp into the main file?

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unknownone wrote:This is

unknownone wrote:

This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming that if we contribute something you can merge our esp into the main file?

Not a dumb question at all. Yeah, we'll be able to merge your esp file into the master file (esm) just like we've been doing with Morrowind_ob.esm.

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I'm starting simple for now

This comment, along with a number of others has been moved here in order to keep threads clear. 
-Ice 

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