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RammS
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Skywind Role-play system

First of all, I want to say that I'm not a scripter and haven't got any ideas how to properly do this, but I know that it's real if you have got scripting experience, because all of the effects allready present in Skyrim.

Here we go, it's a list of the morrowind attributes and how we can realize them in Skyrim.

Strength damage and weight multiplier. Sample scripts already exists in actor values for this effects.

Agility "Deft movement" effect multiplier up to 10% at 100.  Sample scripts already exists in perks for this effect.

Endurance increases health and stamina, can be used oblivion or morrowind formula for this.  Sample scripts already exists in actor values for this effects.

Intelligence simple mana multiplier.

Luck I'm not sure about this, but we can use effects from perkss "golden touch" (increases gold amount in chests), also increases lockpick chance (lockpick tree scripts) + pickpoketing chance and chance to find good random item.  Sample scripts already exists in perks for this effects.

Personality ??? I haven't got any proper ideas yet. However, maybe decreasing prices in stores etc, related to the Speech tree perks effects can be used.

Speed already exists in actor values just need to make it adjustable from game.

Willpower magick resist + stamina increases. Sample scripts already exists in perks for this effect.

All of this attributes can be done like magic effects for now and theoretiically can be added to choose window when level up overwriting standart "HEALTH, STAMINA, MAGICKA"

The main problem lies in the fact that Skyrim actor values do not connected to the skills. How connct them - I don't know for the already mentioned reasons.  Furthermore, for now we can not properly add new skill trees, but by using extend scripts we can add new skills here is the mod   way of the monk which add unarmed and unarmored skills. However author haven't got visualization of this skills and using Pillars to operate with them in game.

We can solve this problem by editing interface. Skyrim's interface is simple to modiffy because it's on the flash technology. I'm looked into this files in my Adobe Flash and can easily add new bars etc. However I cannot properly save them for game yet. Because all of the Skyrim's swf files contain only frey square. My exported swf contain all menues visible, so I think problem in the export settings.

Finally, the last problem - skill trees not in the interface type. They are using nif and I do not know what to do with them.

 

Any suggestions?

 Also, we can do it by the simplier way for the first time by adding spears to the one-handed skill tree with proper effects (like  maces and blades have got personal perks) etc. But he haven't got visualization of this skills and using Pillars to operate with them in game.

 

 

IMPORTANT RELATED THREADS:

  •  
  • Morrowind to Skyrim Action Plan
  • Project Andoran Plugin Converter    
  •  
  • Project Andoran Nif Converter  
  • Proper Morrowind armor and other clothes in Skyrim  
  • Updating Morroblivion models to a Skyrim standard
  • Morroskyrim Master File   
  • MorroSkyrim Role-play system  
  • Morroskyrim Meshes and Textures  
  • Converting Skyrim NPCS   
  • Vivec Race WIP (Armour and other stuff conversion by helpfulperson)    

 

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/14/2014 - 22:28
EnvyDeveloper
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This mod adds back attributes
This mod adds back attributes to Skyrim and incorporates them into levelling up as well. Maybe take inspiration from it and look at how they have done it? http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/13968
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Envy! good find! This mod

Envy! good find! This mod looks very similiar to my ideas, moreover, it contains source code!

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Happy to help
Happy to help :)
RammS
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I try it out, and what can I

I try it out, and what can I say, it really gives true-morrowind feeling! Yes, ofcourse, here is the same skills trees like in Sky, but this is really what we need! Some adjustments and it'll be great

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Now, I've only just joined

Now, I've only just joined but based on what I've read about this game it's not so much to turn Skyrim into Morrowind but rather to put Morrowind into Skyrim as a location you can go and play through.

Changing gameplay mechanics in this way seem to not really be in the spirit of the mod.  This would be more of a mod that you would download yourself in addition on your own, just as you're actually able to.

Basically, I don't think it's the purpose of this mod to insert an attribute system into Skyrim, especially when there's other options open to you to do that very thing if you want like you just discovered with that mod that was referenced.

Please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this fact.

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Well you do put across a good

Well you do put across a good point, you will eventually be able to play Morrowind in a superior engine just like Morroblivion. I suppose its something that comes down to choice, but personally i wasn't to chuffed about Skyrim doing away with attributes if i'm to be brutally honest. ;)

One thing is though i'll be using this mod from now on @EnvyDeveloper thanks for the great find! :D

 

EDIT:

Found a mod that restores the classes aswell:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/16736

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gidz89 wrote:Well you do put

gidz89 wrote:

Well you do put across a good point, you will eventually be able to play Morrowind in a superior engine just like Morroblivion. I suppose its something that comes down to choice, but personally i wasn't to chuffed about Skyrim doing away with attributes if i'm to be brutally honest. ;)

One thing is though i'll be using this mod from now on @EnvyDeveloper thanks for the great find! :D

 

EDIT:

Found a mod that restores the classes aswell:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/16736

A lot of people were unhappy with the loss of classes and attributes.  Thing is, not everybody was upset at their loss.  This mod though just doesn't need said systems shoved into it, not when there are other options available as I said.

I personally was glad for the loss of attributes.  I never saw how the Morrowind version of the attributes worked but they drove me absolutely insane in Oblivion, to the point where I did not enjoy the game at all.  My OCD pretty much forces me to maximise my stat increases each level.  Completely changes the game.  At least Skyrim let me play the game how I wanted to play it.

I do find it odd that Daggerfall never elicited that reaction from me, only Oblivion.

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Yea i can see your point -

Yea i can see your point - perhaps this could be an optional addon? I hated leveling period in Oblivion it just drove me nuts, i only ever use OblivionXP for that now - Skyrim is definately more fluid.

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Yeah, I agree with you
Yeah, I agree with you Enclave. I would think this would be an optional mod so as to not force anyone to lose Skyrim's mechanics. Honestly I don't mind the Skyrim skill mechanics but I'll definitely try out this mod if/when it's finished.
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I actually kind of like

I actually kind of like Skyrim's system now.  At first I absolutely hated the idea, but once I bought the game and tried it out, it grew on me, even after years of Morrowind and Oblivion.  It should not be integrated into the main project, but I would definitely try this out as a mod.  :)

Oh and not to get off topic or anything, but Enclave, sweet name :)

It is to bad we had to destroy them for the game to progess.  I totally would have loved to play the whole game as a member of the Enclave.

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RammS wrote:First of all, I

RammS wrote:

First of all, I want to say that I'm not a scripter and haven't got any ideas how to properly do this, but I know that it's real if you have got scripting experience, because all of the effects allready present in Skyrim.

Here we go, it's a list of the morrowind attributes and how we can realize them in Skyrim.

Strength damage and weight multiplier. Sample scripts already exists in actor values for this effects.

Agility "Deft movement" effect multiplier up to 10% at 100.  Sample scripts already exists in perks for this effect.

Endurance increases health and stamina, can be used oblivion or morrowind formula for this.  Sample scripts already exists in actor values for this effects.

Intelligence simple mana multiplier.

Luck I'm not sure about this, but we can use effects from perkss "golden touch" (increases gold amount in chests), also increases lockpick chance (lockpick tree scripts) + pickpoketing chance and chance to find good random item.  Sample scripts already exists in perks for this effects.

Personality ??? I haven't got any proper ideas yet. However, maybe decreasing prices in stores etc, related to the Speech tree perks effects can be used.

Speed already exists in actor values just need to make it adjustable from game.

Willpower magick resist + stamina increases. Sample scripts already exists in perks for this effect.

All of this attributes can be done like magic effects for now and theoretiically can be added to choose window when level up overwriting standart "HEALTH, STAMINA, MAGICKA"

The main problem lies in the fact that Skyrim actor values do not connected to the skills. How connct them - I don't know for the already mentioned reasons.  Furthermore, for now we can not properly add new skill trees, but by using extend scripts we can add new skills here is the mod   way of the monk which add unarmed and unarmored skills. However author haven't got visualization of this skills and using Pillars to operate with them in game.

We can solve this problem by editing interface. Skyrim's interface is simple to modiffy because it's on the flash technology. I'm looked into this files in my Adobe Flash and can easily add new bars etc. However I cannot properly save them for game yet. Because all of the Skyrim's swf files contain only frey square. My exported swf contain all menues visible, so I think problem in the export settings.

Finally, the last problem - skill trees not in the interface type. They are using nif and I do not know what to do with them.

 

Any suggestions?

 Also, we can do it by the simplier way for the first time by adding spears to the one-handed skill tree with proper effects (like  maces and blades have got personal perks) etc. But he haven't got visualization of this skills and using Pillars to operate with them in game.

 

 

IMPORTANT RELATED THREADS:

  •  
  • Morrowind to Skyrim Action Plan
  • Project Andoran Plugin Converter    
  • Project Andoran Nif Converter  
  • Proper Morrowind armor and other clothes in Skyrim  
  • Updating Morroblivion models to a Skyrim standard
  • Morroskyrim Master File   
  • MorroSkyrim Role-play system  
  • Morroskyrim Meshes and Textures  
  • Converting Skyrim NPCS   
  • Vivec Race WIP (Armour and other stuff conversion by helpfulperson)    

 

What if instead of a attribute system like Morrowind's or Skyrims, there was instead a hybrid system incorporated? The attribute changes would work like you suggested and all....

Here's how it would work out; all races and creatures have set stats and bonuses...

Ex: 65 can be the "base level" for all attributes (or anything, but just for example) Orcs would recieve plus 10 to strength, and minus 10 to Intellegence, thus all Orcs would naturally have 75 base strength and 55 base intellegence.

From there, attributes could recieve small boosts via leveling up stats...

Ex: a 100 blade skill would produce a 10 point bonus to strength (this would happen automatically for the player character and NPCs)

And finally, being a vampire or werewolf would also effect your "base attributes".

Ex: An Orc Werewolf not in wolf form would have 85 base strength, and in wolf form, that would go up to 100

 

Thoughts?

(PS: It should be noted that, outside of training stats, that attributes in this system would be unchangeable)

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Honestly, lets keep the
Honestly, lets keep the Skyrim levelling system in the main project and adapt Third Era Attributes, Classes and birthsigns as a separate mod. I don't really want a mix of the two in the main project tbh. It's best to keep it a choice, though the hybrid system is a good idea.
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Shadow wrote:I actually kind

Shadow wrote:

I actually kind of like Skyrim's system now.  At first I absolutely hated the idea, but once I bought the game and tried it out, it grew on me, even after years of Morrowind and Oblivion.  It should not be integrated into the main project, but I would definitely try this out as a mod.  :)

Oh and not to get off topic or anything, but Enclave, sweet name :)

It is to bad we had to destroy them for the game to progess.  I totally would have loved to play the whole game as a member of the Enclave.

I've actually been using this name since, oh man, probably 1999 or so at various places online.  Though, I did get it from Fallout 2, love that game.

Regarding what you said about Skyrims system.  Really it's the perks that saves it.  While you lost the customisation that came from the old class/attribute system you gained the ability to get your customisation via perks.  The thing that makes perks so much better than the class/attribute system if you ask me is that it removes the micromanaging.  You get to play how you want to play and put your perks where you want.  You don't have to make a class where all your skills you plan to use are minor skills and all the skills you don't want to use are major skills and then play a certain way to maximise your stats.  Skyrim doesn't punish you for just playing the game the way Oblivion did.  In Oblivion, sure you didn't have to maximise your stats, but if you wanted to play your character your way you often would end up with a gimped character statistically.

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But we all have our own
But we all have our own opinions - so there should be options whether to stick with Skyrim's levelling system or not. I don't have Skyrim yet but I would prefer to have both perks and attributes like New Vegas did (as much as I played it so far). I don't want to start out exactly the same no matter whether I was a thief, warrior or mage. And I don't want to wander to align my standing stone either (I really want to get into the action and I would rather max up my attributes tbh). I personally like attributes but some people like you don't. I agree that we should have a choice between attributes, birthsigns or classes or not - but on the other hand, in the classes/birthsigns mod, you can choose not to pick a class or a birthsign whereas the attributes are forced upon you. Choice is always good - you can disable map markers in Morroblivion by finding a Nirnroot plant in Seyda Neen. Some people hate fast travel and map markers but IMO they're lifesavers sometimes. :)
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EnvyDeveloper wrote:But we

EnvyDeveloper wrote:

But we all have our own opinions - so there should be options whether to stick with Skyrim's levelling system or not. I don't have Skyrim yet but I would prefer to have both perks and attributes like New Vegas did (as much as I played it so far). I don't want to start out exactly the same no matter whether I was a thief, warrior or mage. And I don't want to wander to align my standing stone either (I really want to get into the action and I would rather max up my attributes tbh). I personally like attributes but some people like you don't. I agree that we should have a choice between attributes, birthsigns or classes or not - but on the other hand, in the classes/birthsigns mod, you can choose not to pick a class or a birthsign whereas the attributes are forced upon you. Choice is always good - you can disable map markers in Morroblivion by finding a Nirnroot plant in Seyda Neen. Some people hate fast travel and map markers but IMO they're lifesavers sometimes. :)

But that's just it, you have that ability already in the way of those 2 mods posted in this topic that are on the Nexus.

My point is that it doesn't seem like it is the job of Morroskyrim to implement the attributes or classes even as options since everybody already has the ability to do exactly that with existing mods.  Adding mods like that as options to this project would do nothing but make the project take longer to complete.

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Yeah, I don't think it has to
Yeah, I don't think it has to be implemented in CharGen either as I heard that it is compatible with alternative start mods (both mods). But what about the enchantments and potions which drain/damage/restore attributes? Wouldn't they have to be adapted for Third Era attributes?
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Enclave, current mod contains

Enclave, current mod contains all Skyrim system as well (perks), but just adds extra possibility to increase variety of the gameplay and leveling system.

Moreover, it'll solve some future problems like corprus in main quest and many of vanilla morrowind Items problems related to  the conversion,

 

I'm going to create Morrowid-style(not the game-style, but  the ThirdEra-style) interface mod which will include atributes system aswell. However, source code difficult than I expected and noticed before, so I think, first beta-version of this mod will be released not earlier than middle of august.

p.s. If anybody familiar with actionscript 2.0. please, write to me. Because I'm more aa designer than an actionscript programmer and it'll defenetely push forward the development

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I really look forward to that

I really look forward to that interface mod.  Only SkyUI has gotten anywhere close to the awesomeness of the Morrowind UI, and if you could do that, it would be awesome! :)

So by style do you mean the color scheme, and font, or the window style that was present in morrowind.  I will be stoked either way, but could you clear that up. Thanks. :)

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Color shemes, fonts, some

Color shemes, fonts, some third era-style related  pics in interface and some functional abilities.

At the moment I'm trying to create a minimap on the main hud.

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I can't wait!

I can't wait! :)

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RammS wrote:Enclave, current

RammS wrote:

Enclave, current mod contains all Skyrim system as well (perks), but just adds extra possibility to increase variety of the gameplay and leveling system.

Moreover, it'll solve some future problems like corprus in main quest and many of vanilla morrowind Items problems related to  the conversion,

 

I'm going to create Morrowid-style(not the game-style, but  the ThirdEra-style) interface mod which will include atributes system aswell. However, source code difficult than I expected and noticed before, so I think, first beta-version of this mod will be released not earlier than middle of august.

p.s. If anybody familiar with actionscript 2.0. please, write to me. Because I'm more aa designer than an actionscript programmer and it'll defenetely push forward the development

I have no issues with a mod such as this existing.  My only thought is that it doesn't belong in Morroskyrim.  It sounds like a fantastic mod and you should work on it.  Just like I said, it shouldn't be prepackaged in with the Morroskyrim mod.  That's all I'm saying.

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Agreed. I think it would be

Agreed. I think it would be better as an optional add-on.

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im by no means a

im by no means a moder-programer but i have a great disdane for how bethesda took so many things that made in my opinion morowind the best rpg iv ever played (and iv ben a rpger since dragon warior on nes)  and threw them out to try to make tes more like so many other half ass action games in my opinion the attributes was a large part of this game for me i truly hope someone can recreate this the only ideal i can think to add to some of the other ideas on here is for every 10 atr points add a skill point bonus in addition to there normal bonus 

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I think I'm a bit of an

I think I'm a bit of an anomoly. I've played 7 TES games now in order of: Morrowind, Arena, Daggerfall, Oblivion, Redguard, Battlespire and Skyrim and if I'm honest I didn't mind that much about the loss of attributes and classes. I can see where they were comiing from and why they did it: So that we can spend more time with the main aspect of TES (the world) and less time in menus fretting over numbers.

I'm especially happy with the removal of the most immersion-breaking attributes: Athletics and Acrobatics.

However, I'd like to see Classes and Attributes returned for Skywind, but if it were up to me I'd make it an optional ESP.

Not everybody thinks Skyrim was a step backwards.

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I agree Malgarroth. I played

I agree Malgarroth. I played Morrowind like when it first came out, and I still think the SYSTEM of Skyrim is a step forward. I didn't really care for Morrowind's complicated attribute and skills system. Not that it was bad, I just think Skyrim's is more simple and to the point. 

However, I was and always am a hack and slash guy. If I played as a magic, thief character, etc, I might think differently.

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I enjoyed the combat

I enjoyed the combat improvements, and actually like the map markers. I remember playing Morrowind when it first came out on Xbox, and hated spending 40 minutes to find a cave that I kept missing. I don't like the quest markers though, I feel they're holding your hand too much with them. But at the same time, tracking down an npc that moves a lot would be quite annoying without them. As for fast travel, eh, I don't mind it. Sometimes you just don't feel like walking the 20 miles.

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Keep attributes optional, if implementing them at all

Just adding my voice to the chorus saying attributes should NOT be part of the main download for Skywind. In this case, optional is crucial. Forcing you to change how you level your character would make it much more complicated to use an existing Skyrim character in your Skywind game, making Skywind much less attractive to people who don't want to make a new character.

Also, this thread started with the heading of ROLE-PLAY SYSTEM. While I respect that some people liked the attribute system, it is from that very point of view - wanting a good system for actually role playing your character - that I hated classes/attributes. Enclave nailed the reason:

The thing that makes perks so much better than the class/attribute system if you ask me is that it removes the micromanaging.  You get to play how you want to play and put your perks where you want.  You don't have to make a class where all your skills you plan to use are minor skills and all the skills you don't want to use are major skills and then play a certain way to maximise your stats.  Skyrim doesn't punish you for just playing the game the way Oblivion did.  In Oblivion, sure you didn't have to maximise your stats, but if you wanted to play your character your way you often would end up with a gimped character statistically.

In fact the whole system went dead against Todd Howard's vision for the whole series: Letting the player ROLE PLAY the game, figuring out what choices your character would make in given situations, and playing that role out, choosing his or her own play style according to the character's own quirks and preferences. Instead the system encourages you to micromanage your class and skills in ridiculous ways that have nothing at all to do with role playing, at least not in that original sense of the word. Of course you didn't HAVE to do that in Morrowind, but the system still encouraged it. And in Oblivion, you almost DID have to because of the horrible level scaling - a 'gimped character statistically' was pretty easily a dead character in a high-level fight.

Optional is nice. If you can recreate the class/attribute system in a way that works technically and, harder still, tactically, kudos to you. Then people who love to worry about how to micromanage character leveling can knock yourselves out. Myself though, I stay clear of anything smacking of classes and attributes.

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this means we'll also get the

this means we'll also get the old ingredients back? obviously with a different effect..

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I'd like to see attributes return...

The more ways to define your character in game, the better. Though I would like to see a different implementation than in Oblivion and Morrowind.

  - Rather than being dependent upon which skills you trained in, you get 3-5 freely distributable attribute points whenever you gain a level. No more worrying about training the wrong skills. Put them where you want them.
 - The major/minor system resulted in uneccessary complication and micromanagement, and the system was severely broken. In my opinion, it would be better to keep it out of Skywind.

 

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I almost feel like I'm

I almost feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but restoring the attributes sounds great as an optional plugin, but not something that is included, or is even a priority.

Basically everything Malgarroth, Mehh, and Icehair said.  :)

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I think its important to

I think its important to remember, that we will be bringing morrowind into skyrim. I imagine it as a 'what if' morrowind was created with skyrims mechanics. That said, we should try and make it feel as close to the original morrowind as possible.

I don't know how everyone else feels about what skywind should be, but I think the mod can be improved besides the better graphics. I mean, radiant AI makes sense, I liked the other ideas of having faction specific crime bounty (as long as the jail placements make sense). What I'm saying is morrowind needs to conform to skyrims rules and not the other way around.

Everything else should be optional.

 

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Well put Machine +1

Well put Machine +1

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:)

As i told before Skywind should be as possible close to Skyrim in order to be compatible with new gameplay mods or with mods that fix current Skyrim gameplay into a more realistic one.

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in the end how are you going

in the end how are you going to handle attributes?

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It's staying Skyrim vanilla.

It's staying Skyrim vanilla. If someone wants stats for Morrowind, well there is already a mod on the Nexus for it. I'd rather someone have the option for the old-school stat system than force it on them.

Faulgor
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EnvyDeveloper wrote:This mod

EnvyDeveloper wrote:

This mod adds back attributes to Skyrim and incorporates them into levelling up as well. Maybe take inspiration from it and look at how they have done it? http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/13968

Hi, creater of that mod here. Stumbled upon this thread when I was checking on any updates for Skywind. :)
Just wanted to say that, if you so chose, you guys can use any files from my mod you'd like for your own work. TEAS itself has been on ice for quite a while, because there was much more work to be done to tie in attributes with the rest of the game, and I just didn't have the time to get around to it (and the UI-implementation still sucks). Unless somebody does a better job at it by then, I might pick it up once all add-ons for Skyrim are released.

That said, and while I'm no dev on your Skywind project, I think you'll have to decide one way or the other for the player if they are going to use the Skyrim-system or a new implementation of attributes. Attributes are a part of many of Morrowind's mechanics (enchantments, NPC-requirements, etc), and either you have to replace them with Skyrim equivalents - which could be tough in a lot of cases - or recreate the old attributes, which is tough to implement for the rest of the game in a meaningful way.
What I mean is, leaving the choice to the player might not be an option if you want to do Morrowind justice. Personally I'd advise to keep Skyrim's system, but I'm just happy to see this project move forward in any direction. :)

Iniquity
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Thanks man! It is really

Thanks man! It is really great!) I have sent pm to u in nexus in september, but you didnt answer me.( I very happy that you appeared here))

ItzRedsnow
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Personality Skill

Just an idea that shouldn't (in theory) be too hard to implement, your personality could increase the chances of an NPC opponent excepting your yield.  Merry Christmas and happy modding!

EnvyDeveloper
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It was decided that

@Faulgor It was decided that attributes are optional and Skywind uses Skyrim equivalents.

One thing I hated about attributes was that monsters could sap your strength and leave you there in the dungeon rooted to the spot, and the nearest shrine was a long way away.

But I like micromanaging. I always play a stealth character and this micromanaging is really vital to how I play. I want to see stats and how good my character is good at certain things so I don't jump in a quest head first without being good at it.

well, no more sapping strength from the undead in Skywind ;)

Dark_Ansem
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EnvyDeveloper wrote:@Faulgor

EnvyDeveloper wrote:

@Faulgor It was decided that attributes are optional and Skywind uses Skyrim equivalents.

One thing I hated about attributes was that monsters could sap your strength and leave you there in the dungeon rooted to the spot, and the nearest shrine was a long way away.

But I like micromanaging. I always play a stealth character and this micromanaging is really vital to how I play. I want to see stats and how good my character is good at certain things so I don't jump in a quest head first without being good at it.

well, no more sapping strength from the undead in Skywind ;)

then someone should make the definitive list of what old attributes mean in skyrim :)

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willpower should possibly

willpower should possibly target magicka/stamina regeneration, rather than flat values?