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lukkar
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[COMPLETED - ENVIRONMENT CONCEPT]The Nine Divines - stained glass

Well I know it wasn't in MW but fits to imperial shrines.

This what I found on imperial library:

This is how it looked in game:

Honestly I aim more in witcher direction, you will see why

So this is what I have already done. It needs a bit clean up, adding strength to particular lines (find better balance) and fill barren spaces with sth cool enough (or leave it empty). Now it is just done lineart. And off course I'm aware that some places need connecting (technology of stained glass). As any religious depiction it should contain a lot of symbolic stuff like for example Hieronymus Bosch paintings or Jan van Eyck.

Good critique will be appreciate, especially if I treat it as portfolio piece. So best possible result in some reasonable timeline would be cool. Feedback will help me do it better, so thanks in advance. I don't mind of some overpainting also.

----------

It would be cool if critique in this thread will be divided on three categories:

Esthetics: well just look, and if you can recognize everything. And also anatomy, balance etc.

Symbolism: if used examples depict well enough some features. Lore etc.

Overall: Just overall direction in representation of this character. Overall impact. Do it more dynamic or static etc. and so on and so on.

So this is all for now. Good stage for comments. I'm waiting for feedback.

Link to gallery.

 

 

Edited by: Cesare on 04/18/2016 - 19:17
Jazzman90
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Really liking this!

Really liking this!

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Excellent design, no doubt.

Excellent design, no doubt. The gods are perfectly charachterized and the symbolism that accompany the drawings are good, but Kynareth's gusts of air might have some trouble being turned into stained glass since they are open designs. Also, stained glass windows in cathedrals used to have geometric backgrounds around their Biblical figures, usually just coloured shapes but sometimes also gusts of wind, clouds or halos. With that said, I think these designs are excellent.

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These look great! This might
These look great! However this might just be me but I think it would be way better if there weren't any Roman letters in the game, feels immersion breaking. How about some lore-friendly lettering? Also the Zenithar panel feels a bit wrong. Firstly him wearing'human clothes' - it makes him seem like an important guy but not godly. I don't think you'd see any ancient Greek depictions of gods wearing human clothing, it humanises them too much, makes them seem more relatable which isn't the goal. Also the emblem does seem very communist Russia, and it kind of looks like there are skyscrapers behind the ship?
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Well, Cyrodilic is 'English',

Well, Cyrodilic is 'English', unfortunately. The letters are already in the game as books, and as signs. They were in Oblivion and Skyrim, too.

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@Sablestone

@Sablestone

I think those things behind the ship are supposed to be basalt columns like the ones you see comprising the Giant's Causeway in Ireland. 

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If you think about the

If you think about the symbolic of Zenithar, it makes no doubt it is coins : prosperity ! It woud have been hard to give them more detail, it would be an insane work for craftsmen.

Anyway, it looks great ! All of them. Eventhough Zenithar's emblem looks very communist, it seems logic, I mean : isn't he the god of workers after all ?  But I think you should replace the purses under the shaking hands, it would be clear it is about trading, otherwise they look very... international aid or something like that.

Arkay is great ! For the sentences, I have one : "There are far more souls in the Universe than there is room for in the physical world. But it is in the physical world that a soul has an opportunity to learn and progress. Without birth, souls would not be able to acquire that experience, and without death there would not be room for birth" from Ark'ay, the God of birth and death

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Jazzman90 wrote:

Jazzman90 wrote:

Really liking this!

(⁎⚈᷀᷁▿⚈᷀᷁⁎)

Entreri wrote:

but Kynareth's gusts of air might have some trouble being turned into stained glass since they are open designs. Also, stained glass windows in cathedrals used to have geometric backgrounds around their Biblical figures, usually just coloured shapes but sometimes also gusts of wind, clouds or halos.

Yeah probably I will go in this direction. Also there are some things with wind which I want to clear to make it more readable.

Sablestone wrote:

These look great! However this might just be me but I think it would be way better if there weren't any Roman letters in the game, feels immersion breaking. How about some lore-friendly lettering?

Well, this font is identical according to whatthefont like original in oblivion.

Sablestone wrote:

Also the Zenithar panel feels a bit wrong. Firstly him wearing'human clothes' - it makes him seem like an important guy but not godly. I don't think you'd see any ancient Greek depictions of gods wearing human clothing, it humanises them too much, makes them seem more relatable which isn't the goal.

Maybe it is a bit too modern in look, I will find out.

Sablestone wrote:

Also the emblem does seem very communist Russia, and it kind of looks like there are skyscrapers behind the ship?

It was done quite fast, so it is a bit messy. I wanted to change it anyway.

Mcloganator wrote:

@Sablestone

I think those things behind the ship are supposed to be basalt columns like the ones you see comprising the Giant's Causeway in Ireland. 

Well they suppose to be coins in one on another. But now I see it is too confusing.

will_xillow wrote:

Anyway, it looks great ! All of them. Eventhough Zenithar's emblem looks very communist, it seems logic, I mean : isn't he the god of workers after all ?  But I think you should replace the purses under the shaking hands, it would be clear it is about trading, otherwise they look very... international aid or something like that.

It should be changed anyway . Average player will be much more unforgiving in interpretation. History imprinted this image so much in our common minds that it will be first thing which folks will think of (wtf? so imperial were just evil socialists :< ). Just look at examples.  Probably problem is that we have hammers above aurel wreath (which could be interpreted as ears of grains as well), maybe solution will be just rearrange it a bit to avoid misleading connotation.

Well when it comes to shaking hands, I thought about "honest profit", cooperation, agreement etc.

will_xillow wrote:

For the sentences, I have one : "There are far more souls in the Universe than there is room for in the physical world. But it is in the physical world that a soul has an opportunity to learn and progress. Without birth, souls would not be able to acquire that experience, and without death there would not be room for birth" from Ark'ay, the God of birth and death

It fits very well, thanks buddy.

Technically what I read imperials believe in reincarnation.

---------------

I took notes about comments here, great kudos for everyone.

 

 

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lukkar designs + nexos

lukkar designs + nexos feedback + fix by lukkar = finished.

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The main thing that bothers



The main thing that bothers me is the scale of the characters. Kynareth is tiny, Mara is  taller than anyone. Mara's child is the size of Kynareth, actually. Some, like Arkay, have a  nimbus. The rest of them doesn't. You should unitise your backgrounds, in terms of graphic rhythms.

Akatosh is too different from the rest.
Not saying that this is great, but that's what he looked like in Oblivion.



Now the bottom part. 

Dibella, Kynareth and Akatosh have their drawings continuing.
Stendarr, Zenithar and Arkay have an icon.
Then Juliano has text, Mara has schematics and Talos has a map.

You should make the same for everyone. The laziest solution being the planets maps. Or keep the drawing going down. 
As far as writing is concerned, just keep the names, get rid of the rest. 

The styles of the characters are not the same. Talos is the closest we have to stained glass. 

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Fantastic! For feedback I

Fantastic! For feedback I have some small ideas, maybe you´ll find it useful:

Kynareth: Maybe you could give Kynareth a background of geometrical leaves to solve the problem with the clouds? A green mosaic of green glass behind her would probably look awesome, too.

Dibella: I would get rid of her smile, her closed lips look more sensual imo.

Mara & Stendarr: They could both have a nimbus. Makes them a bit lesser human. And what do you think about giving Mara a background of candlesticks like in christian churches for a holy and hope giving impression.

Zenithar: Perhaps you can give him a sleeveless tunic and strong arms. And a hammer and a scroll (some trade agreement?) in his hands, to show him more as the crafting and trading god. I like the figure you made for him, but it reminds me more of Sheogorad or Dandelion from The Witcher.

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There could be some

There could be some commandments under each divine, it seems logical that imperials would be trying to force imperial morals to the provinces which they ruled over.

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I'm personally not fond of

I'm personally not fond of readable text in fantasy games.

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Ok, next WIP

Ok, next WIP

So, I want to divide it into three sections (characters/symbols upper/symbols bottom)

Characters seem to me to be done. Now they will be more work on lower parts.

I'm not sure if letters would be so distracting if they would be painted on glass (much lower contrast). But it can be changed anyway.

Now some explanations.

Akatosh - under it/he will be amulet of the kings in flames, under that diadem in roman style and maybe sth in this direction but with dragon. Still not sure.

Arkay - quite similar it needs only some work on lineart

Dibella - some art thing, in lower section some flowers (representing beauty and so on)

Mara - well I will try to show the act of creation (maybe sth connected with devine spark)

Zenithar - under his legs will be sth connected with labor.

Probably blue area will be more blocky overall than green one.

Faoladh wrote:

There could be some commandments under each divine, it seems logical that imperials would be trying to force imperial morals to the provinces which they ruled over.

Not sure it could only fit as some panel under window, but it could be too much.

 

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Yeah, I looked at pictures of

Yeah, I looked at pictures of stained windows they are not really full of text, but there seems to be a lot of plants mostly blossoming ones. It would be nice if every divine had some Tamrielic plant filling the white spaces. Akatosh could have Dragon's Tongue and Kayne maybe Lady's Smock Leaves. It is optional they could stay plain like they did in Oblivion but your characters seem to look smaller and you have plenty of space there. 

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Short feedback from me: (As

Short feedback from me: (As usually, I'll only write about the stuff that I have doubts on, not because I am a negative guy, but because mentioning that everything else is fine all the time does not add information to the feedback)

 

Akatosh:

I assume the fire is meant to symbolize the dragonfires, but usually flames a backdrop for an object indicate it's destruction, so the symbolism might not be perfect on that one. Using the roman vexillum as an inspiration for a symbol also feels off to me, since it would a) connect Akatosh too much with the empire (we already have the amulet of kings to show this connection, the other aspect should be of a more spiritual nature) and b) it's introducing a new kind of imperial symbolism that we don't see anywhere else (afaik)

 

Arkay:

I'm also not very fond on the text. While I have no problems with using text in general, it breaks consistency in this case, if you want to use text, make it one or two lines per window and place it consistently (preferably somewhere near the borders of the windows) but some of them having text as a prominent element and some not having any is weird. Pick two symbols for him, one of them for life and death, another one for the seasons of the year. I'm also not sure on the weighing scale, you should probably contact one of our lore guys about death symbolism in Tamriel, maybe you'll find something better.

 

Dibella:

I'd lose the "wrap" around her left breast, it just looks weird. For the symbols, you have arts / crafts and beauty, but you're missing out a bit on the "goddess of love" aspect.

 

Julianos:

Again, the issue with the text. Add to this the fact that Julianos is the god of wisdom, logic and law. Not the "god of rules" and it should be assumed that imperial law is more complicated then that. The math tools and books on the lower part also need some work, but I think you're aware of that.


Kynareth:

While everyone else gets 2 symbols, she is left with one, which also creates some inconsistency. She's also the patron of sailors and travelers, so maybe something could be done with that (the sea, or a depiction of a landscape on the lower part)

 

Mara:

Didn't notice anything

 

Stendarr:

He's the god of Mercy, Luck and Justice. Right now I think his posture, as well as his symbolism make him look more like a god of judgment. Making his face more friendly and the extended hand more obvious (or maybe using the goblet symbol as shown in Oblivion) might help with that. For the symbols, we'll need something representing luck, not sure what that might be. (Again: Call out to the lore guys here!)

 

Talos:

I think he is fine, although I'm not sure if the elf-skulls aren't a tad too obvious, especially, since the empire wants the elven nations to convert to their religion, so maybe making some amends in that direction would be good. It's also weird that right now he's the only one with a backdrop.

 

Zenithar:

I'm not sure of the clothing, especially the purses and the sword. The sword is just out of place, and the clothing is very detailed compared to the others, and looks also much more "normal" and not godly. While this is a nice touch since he's supposed to be the god with the closest connection to the mortal world, making him a bit less human would be a good thing in my opinion.
The symbolism also seems wrong, because of the one-continental nature of Tamriel, the ties between trade and seafaring aren't as big, and also Kynareth is regarded as the patron of sailors. I liked the older version much more for Zenithar, as it highlighted his connection to trade and labor, I'd just add something that connects him to wealth.



General note:

The nimbus thing that Nexos mentioned is still a problem and a similar thing applied to the backdrop you used for Talos.


As always, good work though, I like where this is going

 

 

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Ok, next step. I hope it is

Ok, next step. I hope it is last one. Just to check up ideas.

Akatosh:

Ok, I added margin to amulet as some kind of field. It will more detached from fire=destroy connotation

I chose sword as symbol of "God of the Cyrodilic Empire, where he embodies the qualities of endurance, invincibility, and everlasting legitimacy."

Arkay

For never ending life cycle I used "Wheel of the Dharma" and mixed it with symbol of death "skull" and Ankh (eternal life symbol) which was used in Daggerfall. The only difference with our Akhn is that it is broken in one place, what it shows differences between mortals and Eadras. Arkay example is just example of escape from this cycle and becoming Eadra.

 

For seasons (below) I just wanted use concept of changing leaves like underneath, but in the wheel.

To avoid too many details it will be just changing colors.

Dibella

Theater's mask, under it is harp on the left and right is brush and chisel. Done in manner of consuming is no by accident, it fits to sensual appearance of Dibella.

In the bottom are flowers (representation of beauty), probably they need some work.

Julianos

I got rid off text. I swapped symbol with Stendarr. Now law is institution. § <- this sign will not work in my opinion.

Tool below will be more "flat" to make them more similar to the rest.

Kynareth

Rain and below light and waves representing wind and sailors as well.

Mara

Plain of creation, below is act of creation. (you creating world from flesh etc.)

Stendarr

I used quite obvious justice symbol, under that I used horseshoe as luck symbol and maybe instead of clover I will use coin

Also I changed expression of this guy, relaxed his muscles in his left hand, now he should look better.

Talos

I had to make flags more "flat" and less dimensional. Also skulls are more neutral.

This is only the god "added" to pantheon. Also he is very important from political reasons, so I will leave him with backdrop as the only one Devine which is historical and also to create stronger focal point. Also he will be in the middle of saints as the most important in the imperial cult, now he is in alphabetical order.

Zenithar

Connotation is quite obvious and also it looks less communist.

Under that is wealth, just money, but it needs more work.

I hope he looks more Devine but in the same way as some kind of "working class" representative. I rolled up  his sleeves, added a bit more muscle mass and tried make them more tense. Also his uniform looks more as "worker" than thinkers like Stendarr or Arkay. I wanted give him Phrygian cap, but it looked like condom.

 

------------

To fill barren spaces I will use penrose tilling and rhombic one. It will look more similar to original than simple square tilling.

Also each devine will have some kind of flowers, I really liked Faoladh's idea (plz.. give me more). Yeah of course flowers will be a bit redone.

------------

And also how chapel will look like

Some small columns inside could help to give better impression.

---------

So I will appreciate what do you think of it guys.

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 It is looking more and more

 It is looking more and more awesome cant wait to see it in game.This is already quite a masterpiece and only thing I don't rally like is Stenndar whose symbols don't feel Imperial, bread, heart or gold coin with engraved drinking horn would be nice. As for his body I really liked his Daggerfall Temple of Stendarr depiction but that is probably subjective. And for the flower idea, now when the divines are bigger I don think it is a good idea it would be really overloaded but thanks for appreciation.

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I could only just take a

I could only just take a short look right now, but it looks pretty much perfect to me.

Only thing I still have doubts on would be the horse shoe and clover for Stendarr. It might be the style or the symbol in general (or maybe it's just me), I can't really tell, but it doesn't sit right with me.

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Are the ten commands meant to

Are the ten commands meant to be written 9 times, then? 

Maybe just get the text replaced by a charity box with a book containing the 10 commands sitting on top.

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Nexos wrote:

Nexos wrote:

Are the ten commands meant to be written 9 times, then?

Nope each one has command the 10'th is in the middle on floor

maxnosense wrote:

I could only just take a short look right now, but it looks pretty much perfect to me.

Only thing I still have doubts on would be the horse shoe and clover for Stendarr. It might be the style or the symbol in general (or maybe it's just me), I can't really tell, but it doesn't sit right with me.

I noticed there are more things to change, it looks still quite messy (lower sections could get planets and other bling bling), now I am quite busy, but I will post result when I will find time

Faoladh wrote:

 It is looking more and more awesome cant wait to see it in game.This is already quite a masterpiece and only thing I don't rally like is Stenndar whose symbols don't feel Imperial, bread, heart or gold coin with engraved drinking horn would be nice. As for his body I really liked his Daggerfall Temple of Stendarr depiction but that is probably subjective. And for the flower idea, now when the divines are bigger I don think it is a good idea it would be really overloaded but thanks for appreciation.

Thnaks for comment I will find solution, don't worry.

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Nexos wrote:

Ok I think it looks good enough, I put planets instead of symbols (Smite suggestion)

Also I gave flowers for each saint (Thanks for ideas Faoladh)

And symbols (Mostly Smite quotes)

Now I will add colors on separate layer for divines similar to original.

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Your concepts so far are

Your concepts so far are amazing, I can't wait to see these in colour. I can already imagine that in game with the sun shining through them that these are going to look especially beautiful.

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They are looking amazing, far

They are looking amazing, far better than any Bethesda stained window I ever saw. By the way I somewhat erased ebonthread from that Zenithar one as a second option but jute fits in pretty good.

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Seperate layers for colour
Seperate layers for colour would great. This can be turned into a nice shader
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My god, I just looked through

My god, I just looked through all of these, and they are AMAZING. I dont have anything constructive to add, I just wanted to tell you how well made these are, and cant wait to see them in game.

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@all

@all

Thanks, all you guys

Let me know what do you think.

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Those look SO dang good

Those look SO dang good Lukkar!

lukkar
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@Mcl

@Mcl

:>

----------------------

Ok, I treat this one as done (I balanced a bit colors and redone mistakes with masks), I will upload all files to disk

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Pure awesomeness

Pure awesomeness

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Venerate the immortal Emper..
Venerate the immortal Emper...er, Praise Talos
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That's great. Sure need to

That's great. Sure need to reuse this pics in some ingame book.

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Really nice concept! I would

Really nice concept! I would love to make this as an awesome project live but big glass will be very costly.

Stained glass making is a pain in the arse is a real pain to deal with

Find my works here http://www.artgsg.com/ if interested