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Frozenwolf150
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Golden Saint Inconsistency?

In traditional Morrowind, the golden saints were classified as creatures, meaning you could soul trap them for grand souls.  This worked with golden saints you could summon yourself.  In Oblivion: Shivering Isles, golden saints were classified as NPCs, meaning they had black souls.

I purchased a scroll of Summon Golden Saint from the enchanter in the Vivec Guild of Mages, I think her name is Janand Maulinie.  When I used the scroll, it summoned the Shivering Isles version of the golden saint.  I assumed this was going to be the case for all golden saints in Morroblivion.

However, I recently cleared out the Ibar-Dad dungeon, the one on the north coast of the mainland with a treasure trove at the end guarded by powerful daedra.  There were two dremora lords, which I killed with a Soul Trap combo spell, but apparently their souls are black like in Oblivion and unlike in vanilla Morrowind.  There was a golden saint too, and this one used the Morrowind model, not the Shivering Isles model.  I killed it with the same spell, and I did trap its soul in one of my grand soul gems.

Are there supposed to be two types of golden saints in Morroblivion?  I assumed it was a glitch, but is it an intended feature?  I already noticed that both models of scamps are in the game, with the Oblivion model used for the Creeper NPC, and the Morrowind model used for the enemies / summons.

ETA: I also noticed that this happens with other creatures I've summoned from scrolls.  The frost atronach I got from a scroll used the Oblivion model and had its set of abilities, whereas one I encountered in a dungeon used the Morrowind model and had its set of abilities.

Edited by: Frozenwolf150 on 10/07/2017 - 23:30
ponyrider0
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Yes, you are correct -- there

Yes, you are correct -- there are many inconsistencies between Morrowind and Oblivion versions of creatures, items, spells, etc.  This is neither a "bug" or "feature", but just the result of the organic process of countless volunteers collaborating over nearly a decade of development... However, converting everything over to consistently use Oblivion assets does have the benefit of not only better visual quality (which is sometimes debatable) but also less legal grey area caused by unauthorized use of Morrowind game assets.

If you post any occurences of Morrowind vs Oblivion asset inconsistency you see on the Active Bugs List, I'll put it on the todo list to switch to fully using Oblivion assets instead.  Thanks.

Puddles
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I know this was addressed in

I know this was addressed in my Symphony of Creatures mod: all Golden Saints are NPCs, although they wear different armor than the standard Shivering Isles ones.

roxon_55
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Then Beth_Soft wins and

Then Beth_Soft wins and Morroblivion just Becomes Another Oblivion  ADDON,, End of Morrowind Conversion.

10 Years of Modders Work Gone..

Will Loose the Morrowind Effect, Could the Summon Creatures be Change to Suit.

Just 1 Persons Train of Thinking.

ponyrider0
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roxon_55 wrote:

roxon_55 wrote:

Then Beth_Soft wins and Morroblivion just Becomes Another Oblivion  ADDON,, End of Morrowind Conversion.

10 Years of Modders Work Gone..

Will Loose the Morrowind Effect, Could the Summon Creatures be Change to Suit.

Just 1 Persons Train of Thinking.

What you're saying is very true, but in my opinion, Bethesda "won" the fight a long time ago when Morroblivion was banned from Nexus and official forums, and when most users started thinking that Morroblivion is an illegal mod.  By replacing the auto-converted Morrowind assets with Oblivion assets or hand-made assets from the modding community, maybe we can get more support from the rest of the modding community.

Also, maybe the vanilla Morrowind assets could still be provided as optional graphics replacer mods to recreate the original Morrowind feel.

 

Frozenwolf150
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ponyrider0 wrote:

ponyrider0 wrote:

If you post any occurences of Morrowind vs Oblivion asset inconsistency you see on the Active Bugs List, I'll put it on the todo list to switch to fully using Oblivion assets instead.  Thanks.

I've noticed this primarily happens with summoned creatures.  As I mentioned, the summons are Oblivion types, while the pre-set creatures are Morrowind types.  So you've got two sets of creatures with their own sets of abilities from different games.

If you want specifics, I'll post them once I've gotten through the game.  I think I've seen this with skeletons as well.  I'm not entirely sure what happens with creatures where only a Morrowind version exists.

ponyrider0
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The inconsistency stems from

The inconsistency stems from the original ESPConverter substitutions which completely replaced Morrowind records for Oblivion records.  This is not ideal, as it will lead to unbalancing and breaking of Morrowind quest and scripts.  My goal would be to standardize everything to use unique Morroblivion specific records, statistics, quests, scripts and dialog and just replace graphics with preferably user-made Morrowind/Morroblivion assets or, if not available, just vanilla Oblivion ones. 

What I will need is the base FormID which can be obtained by using the refscope mod.  If you find anything, just post the info here.  I will go ahead and look through the Golden Saint records.  Thanks.

Puddles
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I’ll put making a vanilla

I’ll put making a vanilla Morrowind-style set of Golden Saint armor on my to-do list. While it’s really cumbersome you can actually copy the vanilla animations and skeleton from the _male folder into a new one, then add a fully formed creature made from fully formed NPC parts. Only caveat is the face has to remain covered because they don’t blink, etc. so it is possible to manage a Grand Soul Gem Saint