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grumpycat
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Level Design - Skywind #1

This is a big call out for all those that have any Level Design experience. Anybody that has played around with the landscapes, town or interiors in the Creation Kit is going to be of much help.

Our problem is that we have an environment that was created with an automated converter tool. Although it has set up the game world with the original models, the translation has not faired well with both the land texture tiling and also the general look of the sparse object placements. A huge percentage of the Morrowind world is the height map with little in the way to break it up.

Please download the latest release 0.6.0 that has dirt-cliffs, mountains and rocks taken from Skyrim but altered with appropriate textures for every given area (region).

This will be the base models in which all landscape level design will be done from.
I have also added ztrees rock resources, which has 13 new rocks.

You will be able to find all these new models under "static\morrowind\landscape\dirtcliffs", "static\morrowind\landscape\mountains" and "static\morrowind\landscape\rocks". Each is prefixed according to area; 0AI, 0AL, 0AC, 0BC, 0GL, 0RM, 0WG.

The spreadsheet below is used to record what cells are being edited and if a person wants to book a number of cells so that they can work on them. These are the grayed cells. Light grayed cells are blanket changed cells; meaning they are open to further editing. Darker grey cells are areas that are being specifically edited by a person or team. Please post on this thread which area you are likely to work on.

CLAIMS ON AREAS WORKED ON - BE IN QUICK!!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alvwmz6hbHGPdGZ...

Also specify if you are going to do blanket type changes, that are open for other people to come and add more detail to, or you would rather just do the entire start to finish of level design. For example somebody might do lots of rocks changes to areas, but leave flora, clutter, animals open for somebody else add.

So far the team for Level Design includes:

Anthelius : selected cells in Bitter Coast/Ascadian Isles and Grazelands/Red Mountain

Eloth : Balmora, (shulk egg mine and up to caldera), moving up the southern end of West Gash

Mireneye : Sadrith Mora, Wolverine Hall (not been present for a while)

SqallyDaBeanz : Moglar Amur

Sheo : Khuul

JDT001 : Gnisis

Happychappy: Seyda Neen to Vivec

Brent333: Southeastern Azura Coast

Ravanna : Environment Artist and Moddler

Veltoss : Pelegraid (not been present for a while)

Because of the vast vista differences of Morrowind it would be better to talk about improvements also for regions:
Ascadian Isles — A fertile agricultural region of islands and peninsulas in southernmost Vvardenfell.
Ashlands — A forsaken ash desert in the areas surrounding Red Mountain.
Azura's Coast — A mostly uninhabited region of rocky islands and peninsulas on Vvardenfell's eastern coast.
Bitter Coast — A swampy and poor region along Vvardenfell's west coast.
Grazelands — The pastures in northeastern Vvardenfell.
Molag Amur — A region of volcanic rock and lava pools in the southeastern interior of Vvardenfell.
Red Mountain — The volcanic mountain dominating central Vvardenfell which is encircled by the Ghostfence.
Sheogorad — A wild region of islands and peninsulas surrounding Sheogorad Island off Vvardenfell's northern coast.
West Gash — A rocky, highland region in western Vvardenfell that is rich in minerals.

Edited by: grumpycat on 03/15/2014 - 04:03
grumpycat
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I will add that if people

I will add that if people want to experiment or have a go at editing a particular part of Skywind that they go ahead. I feel that its only through actually attempting changes that true ideas will immerge for how we can apply same level of detail to the rest of the world.

I myself will have a go at a small section of Red Mountain, and post some before and after pictures. I would like other people to do the same.

Looking at various aspects of the Skyrim world, although vastly different in terms of what the vistas provide, still carry many things that can be utilized for the Skywind landscape. It’s the fact that so much of the effort is into making everything looking seemless. That is to say it’s very hard to detect where ground and the objects that sit on its surface actually meet and also along various different models that connect.

The sparse nature of the original Morrowind design means that rocks and such have a very noticeable difference between their surrounding surfaces. Even where same texture sets are used between rocks and the surrounding surface. Much work needs to be done to match color/shadow shades so that they blend in more.
TES3 has big 20ft rocks that stick out from the ground with little to no surrounding objects. It can be argued that this is how the landscape is supposed to look like and so that it should be left as is. However the proof is in the fact that it currently doesn't look very good, probably because we are used to much more detail in games that aim to make environments look as real as possible.

Some obviously techniques that are used are surrounding larger objects with smaller ones. A rock sticking 20ft in the air is going to have some surrounding smaller rocks, with probably some foliage as well. Making sure the color/shades match up between objects goes a long way. Hard contrasts show up model differences and look unnatural with shadows and light not being realistic.
Also in terms of where we have height map as the primary means of the featured landscape, my impression from looking at Skyrim and various mods that having bumpy surfaces is key to making them believable. Without much experience with the Creation Kit I experimented with adding noise to the height map, but it seems that this only helps a little bit. There is no substitute for placed objects that have designed surface bumps.

These are just my ideas; I really need people with experience to lead the way here.

Finally the point of getting people to talk about ideas, rather than just doing it, is that there is a chance that we can write scripts that do broad alterations. This will not be easy, but in terms of getting major results with some simply level design techniques, may move the project along much faster. My first example of this is to write scripts that place more rocks and foliage. Say the quantity and radius of these placed objects are determined by the objects they surround; taking size, type and anything else into consideration. Same with merging land textures, with some guidelines we can further enhance what we have; alleviating much need to hand edit everything.

anthelius
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you mean something like

you mean something like this?

It's a very tedious work in fact, i don't think it can be done by script (or it would need a lot of corrections).

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anthelius: yeah, that is very

anthelius: yeah, that is very close to what we envision, and it has to be done, its the only option we have to mask out the boring round hills we have now.

And no script will ever going to help us out there, so manual labour is the only way :(

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It's like we're creating

It's like we're creating Skywind unique landscapes, lol. Has there even been a Morrowind unique landscape mod?

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I haven't got substantial

I haven't got substantial experience with level design so just my 2 cents on ashlands:

1. A simple template model of 2 blocks can be used to make a plain hill look more natural:

http://www.image123.net/ca2uaul9ad46pic.html

2. There's a texture in Skyrim with small rocks covering the surface similar to grass. It can be used to hide those chess-like land textures.

http://www.image123.net/8lrjkvrzlax1pic.html

3. Weather effects. Constant ash/blight storms, rains, Silent Hill-like fogs with dust falling from the sky etc. It'll perfectly hide the real quality of the surface, Morrowind generally did it this way. There's also "clear" weather condition in Soltheim which looks like smog because of the dust in the air.

http://www.image123.net/gofia3gb5rk5pic.html

4. Cliffracers. When travelling Skyrim you usually look for hidden enemies on the ground, but in Morrowind I always watched the skies because of this flying plague. They really draw your attention from the ground.

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@mehh : at least there was a

@mehh : at least there was a really good hi poly rocks mod we could convert, it could be a good start

other pics




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looking really good, you got

looking really good, you got an eye for landscaping i see :)

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@happychappy THANK YOU for

@happychappy

THANK YOU for bringing this up. I thought I was the only one who noticed this. You are absolutely right, we need to put more objects in to make the environments more believable and more seamless. We want to do this smartly though: not too much (cluttered) or not enough. And as you said, we want to keep consistent, so best to use objects that would only naturally occur in that particular region. For example, no lava rocks in the middle of the bitter coast.

Just want to let you guys know, I'm still in the game, but I've been away because of school. Good news is, I'm currently taking a 3D modeling class, so by end of this semester, I should be able to make us some nice looking models and textures for Skywind.

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It's like Skywind unique

It's like Skywind unique landscapes! Umm.. wouldn't this fall under the polish catagory? If so, shouldn't we worry about this type of stuff later on after more important stuff is fixed? I'm not complaining though, if we wanna do more polish stuff, we should maybe make a thread for interior lighting lol.

Also, hey Eloth, remember when I was fixing up the rocks near the caves, and you mentioned about the rocks being the wrong color, did you ever fix that? =p

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These screenshots look very

These screenshots look very good. It would be fun to see a before/after comparison ;)

I was actually looking at Morrowind and Skywind videos earlier and thought that Morrowind landscape is basically straight lines and curve lines, whereas Skyrim has more complicated lines, with rocks of various shapes and layout etc.. and that actually feels more realistic and should be reprensented in Skywind (with geographical specificities, of course). These screens are actually a good step in that direction.

I hope I'm making sense ;)

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wow thats morrowind skyrim

wow thats morrowind skyrim style looking gooood

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@anthelius - Wow, those look

@anthelius - Wow, those look amazing! This is exactly the sort of landscape wizardry I was hoping for :)

@gerard - All great ideas. Just trying to come up with the quick and easy way to apply some of these results is the key I think.

1. A simple template model of 2 blocks can be used to make a plain hill look more natural:

Skyrim has the dirtcliff set of models, but I'm sure there is a wealth of other ones out there as well. This is dirtcliffs01.nif with redmountain textures:

2. There's a texture in Skyrim with small rocks covering the surface similar to grass. It can be used to hide those chess-like land textures.

Not quite as simply as that. Any texture set that is not covered is still going to have a tiled look to it. Its still a repeating pattern and the brain picks it up even when the textures are cleverly joined. Plus we have a lot of different textures, so applying rocks textures isn't always going to be the solution when we are in need of having unique surfaces. However we might be able to create sets of rubble rock models that can be easily applied to the surfaces.

@Mehh - This is not really a polish thing, I'm surprised that more time hasn't been be done around this as its such big tasks. If you look at the detail of the Skyrim landscape you will understand that this would have been a core focus on their development and I think that Skywind should be no different. But it doesn't take away focus from other areas as we are actually going to need to get level designers working on it. I'm not sure how many people who are currently working on the project have the inclination or skill to do this, so recruiting people who have done mods before will be key.

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anthelius if you could upload

anthelius if you could upload a plugin for some of these landscapes you have played around with that would be cool to look at some of your techniques :)

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There is nothing really hard

There is nothing really hard in fact, just retextured rocks dropped in the landscape. I will probably release the rocks plugins but I can't say when (i'm quite busy and it takes a lot of time : / ).

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Rocks, Rocks, Rocks

Can you tell I want to talk about rocks?

Without a doubt the "secret" to how we are going to make our landscapes is to sculpt a lot of empty space surfaces with rocks, cliff-faces, mountain sides. Especially Molag Amur, Ashlands and Red Mountain.

So the next mission is to make as many rocks available to people who want to get stuck into landscape editing. This means that all available Skyrim rocks will be available in textures appropriate to particular regions.

There are about a 110 of them and not all of them are going to be useful for every region, but for the purposes of systematic adding I will just do them all. Its just extra forms so no real cost to anything, and once the project is completed ( well release 1.0 ) we will remove any that have not been used.

To answer the question; "but shouldn't particular rocks be not available for every region?", the answer is common sense dictates what looks appropriate.

The interesting thing is if you actually look through the Morrowind rocks, they aren't particular different from region to region. Sure we have some big differences between our Molag Amur and Ashland ones. But on the whole they are practically copy and pasted rocked meshes, with different textures. I'm not going to say a fault of Morrowind, but a lot of them have a rectangular shape. I guess you could say from years of being battered by ash-storms and rainy weather? Ok more the fact it was appropriate for the TES3 engine to handle, so as a side project I'll create a little plugin which changes some of the more common rocks to some other available resources.

It is possible to have too many rocks available as resources, but with a bit of a careful selection we should be able to cover a nice variety.

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Don't know why that tree is


Don't know why that tree is purple btw (and it's not the only one)


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purpel tree ya why not fits

purpel tree ya why not fits good dont change it nice screen shots ceep the that magic flowing

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Just to ask, and no promises

Just to ask, and no promises (don't even consider this me asking to join/contribute) but what is the most undeveloped region as far as ground textures and how does one manually fix tiling? is it as simple as smoothing out the edges with the CK's apply texture? If so I'd like to do some stuff in my off time and if lighting strikes send it y'alls way.

Also if it's texture repetiviveness fixing, idk if I can fix it. but if it is smoothing the transition between cells, then I might be able to do that and apply rocks to areas if people retex them for me/others. Just let me know what rocks for what area. If the ck allows manual smoothing of textures between cells. (no more straight line texture differences) then I could work on it. Is this possible?

Finally this work, would be in a seperate esp dependant on skywind or would I work on the main skywind and yall merge it? I just want to work in an area so if It sucks ass or I fuck it up it won't mess up someone elses work in the same area.

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Hm a badly devoloped place, I

Hm a badly devoloped place, I guess you could always try near the Dren Plantation, just scroll out and you'll see lots of work that needs to be done.

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about the grass

Hello i created an account to add my own two sense. lol  I'm no modder or anything, but i figure i could contribute a few ideas.

 

For one i've watched a lot of videos of morroblivion and i've noticed one major problem.... There are a lot of places where the grass is growing in some awkward places. The first example I can think of is near the back of balmora near ciaus's house. that whole (can it be called a street?) shouldn't be overgrown. I mean people live there and would be constantly walking over the surface, trampling the area down and not allowing the grass to grow. Will this and other grassy problems like it be addressed?

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Hey Gregthegen, its more to

Hey Gregthegen, its more to do with using rocks to build up surfaces in the worst areas, like Molag Amur. Try cell 26, -8 and take anthelius example in the post above yours. These are the differences between applying actual rock models or what it currently looks like. Smoothing textures is part of it. But getting the rocks in there is the bulk of the work. However if you have time, its really quite fun. Its just going to take lots of people with lots of time to get it all done!

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Sweet Sounds like a good

Sweet Sounds like a good place to start. :) Same goes for anyone else wanting to take an area. just a simple question though, if I go ahead and use the vanella rocks, can I use the ck's auto replace function to swap out what I place with any retextured rocks once someone has retextured a new tileset without causing issues?

(like if i say get Skyrimbigassrock01 rotated X degrees, and someone retextures said rock and releases MorroAshTexSkyrimBigAssRock01, and replace it in the ck, it wouldnt mess up the roation?

In fallouts CK it doesn't but Ive only done it in interiors there. Oblivions seemed ok.

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I am creating a version of

I am creating a version of most of the Mountains, Cliff faces and Rocks, that will have textures appropriate for each region. I have done the Red Mountain region resources already. It takes about 2 hours to add the re-texture models for each region, so I'll just keep plugging away until they are all done. Unfortunately if you use the default Skyrim ones without the re-textured version, we would need to write a script to replace all the references. A little tricky, but not impossible.

Here are some before and after shots of some subtle rocks adding for Ghost Gate. Things can be done in ways that really don't take away from what Morrowind is, but still will break up the grid smooth landscapes.

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Nice! yeah the Skyrim

Nice! yeah the Skyrim mountaincliff/peak/rock03s etc grey textures were clashing like hell with the brown volcanic region textures. Ill keep on plugging away at my current esp just to get a feel for remembering my favorite combos on the landscape.

but when you are finished with the retexture, if you have a way for myself and others to get a copy of them along with a simple text file explaining which rocks contain textures for which region for our reference then i and others who decided to immerse ourselves in this could happily start plugging away at this. liking your examples so far! :D

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What region( are you having a

What regions are you having a go at? Once I've done the Molag Amur and Ashlands, I'll upload a new master file with the references. What it will be is that for every static rock/mountain/cliff object there will be one for each region. So for example you will see the editor id for "rocks01.nif" will have 0RMRockS01 for Red Mountain and 0MARockS01 for Molag Amur.

There is a new texture, that I haven't done properly, and this is a custom texture that replaces the default "landscape\rocks01.dds" texture. It is essentially going to need to be a mix between the common land texture and the rock texture, depending on the region. I have created placeholders until some genius on the 3D Modeling team does them :)

Its all just going to be trail and error stuff...some methods will work, some won't. I'm keen to see what other people have success with. There are lots of ways areas can be done, so communicating different techniques will be the key.

 

 

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I was going to take molag

I was going to take molag amur but if by "doing" molag amur you mean that you are placing the meshes there then I will start in west gash. if you instead mean your just retexturing molag amur rocks then Ill wait until you finish retexturing and start on Molag Amur first. :)

biggest thing in additon to  me adding the meshes in that region once your finished will be me slightly and I mean slightly adjusting the land in some of the areas to cover up some of the meshes exposed empty spots. Simply resizing smaller rocks doesn't look right with the stretched textures.

As far as guidance goes just let me know how sparce, or how full of rocks each area would make sense. Ive got the landmass loaded up in the ck and also have been walking around in game, but I am not that familiar with morrowind lore on the regions as I am with Oblivion and Skyrim. Biggest thing I'd like to accomplish is increase the players immersion in these areas in any way shape or form... or rock, that I can :D

finally I might as well set up my old imageshack account, it may take some yays and nays once the ball gets rolling before I get a clear idea on how things are progressing.

I'd like to post a screen atleast every day that I'd work, whenever those are to show atleast some progress each and every time. not only for yall but also to keep a record for my own self.

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Before/after^^

Before/after^^



Take molag amur if you want but please leave me the grazelands, bitter coast and ascadian isles (and the surrouding ashland transition) ; )

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Guys don't forget you can't

Guys don't forget you can't use statics from Skyrim.esm directly, you need to recreate those records in Skywind.esm and point them to required meshes. Don't repeat the same errors from Morroblivion, or you'll end up with a hell of cups when converting to TES6.

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Zilav is correct. If you can

Zilav is correct. If you can help it, try duplicating the base objects of anything from skyrim and then use those records. I was putting the number 9 in front to designate it's a custom asset and not part of the original morrowind when I renamed it.

If you aren't sure what master the object is from just look at the formid. The first 2 digits represent what plugin/master it comes from. Skyrim.esm(00), Skywind.esm(01)

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I should have clarified; by

I should have clarified; by doing I mean adding the new forms into the master so that we have the variant (textured) models. I've done Red Mountain, but still need to add the other regions. I was going to add the forms for Molag Amur and Ashlands before posting up the new master. I'll do the other regions, but I will just need to access what resources should be available. I'm using the base objects and using the texture variants, like zilav and machine pointed out :)

I'm not going to landscape any region, so people are more than welcome to go for it. I'm just experimenting for my own curiosity.

It will get to the point though that we will need to co-ordinate which cells have been done, or worked on. I'll have a quick spreadsheet up for this so people can put their names against them.

[EDIT] Here is a spreadsheet for anybody that is working on cells please put their name in the appropriate cell: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alvwmz6hbHGPdEl...

anthelius you really need to upload something so that people can have a look at your stuff in game. Its looking fantastic, but would be great to get in game examples to find out where we can head with overall landscaping. Oh yeah and if you have already added new forms for the model variants then we will need to either get your forms, so that other can use them, or write a script that converts them to some new reference that are created. As I said above I'm going about the business of making them all so that everybody is on the same page with adding new form references to the world.

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http://www.sendspace.com/file

http://www.sendspace.com/file/sxlvtg

I didn't really take care about the form ids but I suppose it's simple and efficient.

The most polished region for now are the grazelands but there may be some glitches remaining.

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Thanks for that anthelius.

Thanks for that anthelius. Its looking great.

What I am going to do is to create all the various references so that you wont have to create a separate model for each region. The Creation Kit has the functionality so that you can have variant texture models based off one particular mesh. But rather than use the base Skyrim ones, I have copied and pasted to the Morrowind meshes folder, for the purposes of porting for future TES games. Yes we are thinking about that stuff already :-P

So for example you won't have two separate models like: acdirtcliffs04moss.nif and bcdirtcliffs04moss.nif.

It all works the same in the CK, you will still have the same form names to select from, its just less models that need to be downloaded and created.

Don't worry keep doing what you are doing, but I'll need to make sure that your forms are merged. If you can hold off from adding any more models for the next week, we can get everything inline first. You can keep on landscape editing of course.

 

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 Allright as long as I don't

 Allright as long as I don't have to redo everything^^. By the way, is it possible to add "dynamic ash" to the rocks with the creation kit (like the dynamic snow in skyrim) ? It could be nice around the red mountain.

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No redoing anything I've had

No redoing anything :) I've had a bit of a play around with applied effects to models in CK, so I'll see what we can do about getting an ash effect. Maybe Dragonborn has already done this? I'll check it all out.

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Dragonborn already uses the

Dragonborn already uses the "ash effect".  This just needs to be copied.

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IMPORTANT DOWNLOAD FOR DESIGNERS!

Right the latest Skywind.esm has dirt-cliffs, mountains and rocks taken from Skyrim but altered with appropriate textures for every given area.

Download here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1vwmz6hbHGPa25uMFpEM0ZtZjA/...

This will be the base models in which all landscape level design will be done.
I have also added ztrees rock resources, which has 13 new rocks.

You will be able to find all these new models under "static\morrowind\landscape\dirtcliffs", "static\morrowind\landscape\mountains" and "static\morrowind\landscape\rocks". Each is prefixed according to area; 0AI, 0AL, 0AC, 0BC, 0GL, 0RM, 0WG.

There is only one variety of every given landscape model, meaning that all the rock surfaces for a given area will be be the same texture, as well as surface texture. If an editor wants to add another model variant for variety they are more than welcome to do it. I simply wanted to get the ball rolling with at least one set so that editors have a firm start.

The next step is to add the Morrowind rock resources "On the Rocks", which has an update to all the Morrowind rocks. Unfortunately our NifTools don't convert them, so 3DSmax import/export is required.

Veltoss
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Has anyone started

Has anyone started cluttering/detailing cities such as Vivec? I'd personally prefer to work on a city/town rather than misc. wilderness as I have more experience with that and enjoy it more. Whether or not anyone has started are there any standards, requirements, rules, etc for cluttering?

zilav
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I think there are intentions

I think there are intentions to redesign Vivec, so I'll wait on that. Other cities are free to use :)

The only limitation is that you can't use objects from Skyrim.

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Hey Veltoss, Yeah you can go

Hey Veltoss,

Yeah you can go for any other place you want, just let us know so that we can book it in as being worked on.

No real rules I think, just maybe look for some concept art that originally came out with Morrowind, in the case that you might find some inspiration.

If you want to use an item from Skyrim that you think perfectly fits in with or is a better replacer than Morrowind (Skywind) one, then post them here. They will need to be added into our custom folder, so that we future proof for further porting.

We have a need to replace/alter as many of our models, so one more good eye looking through them will help.

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I'm working on getting

I'm working on getting Skywind installed right now so hopefully I can begin soon.

For anyone else who plans on doing city/town clutter in the future, he's all the concept art I could find that includes some clutter inside towns/cities that might help for inspiration and to keep the original feel of Morrowind.

 

 

I think I'll start with Balmora. I will mark what cells I start with once I have Skywind installed and can have a look. I will keep an eye out for good Skyrim objects to move over, I've seen just about all of them when working on my Saviik City mod. What about modder's resource objects such as Oaristys'? It has an amazing amount of new clutter objects, though they use objects/items already ingame so perhaps they would have to be included in Skywind for it to work.

 

EDIT: Have Skywind working. I'll be working on Balmora clutter. I've noticed though that the number of objects in Morrowind is... terribly small. If I want to suggest some objects to be added to Skywind from Skyrim, should I just make a list of the object names? Or could I just do this myself by copying the items from Skyrim to my Skywind plugin?

SquallyDaBeanz
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Landscape

Hey guys, I'd love to help edit some of the Skywind landscapes, but I don't know the technical part of it. If I book a cell and edit it, what do I do with it then? How will I be able to add my work into the Skywind master download? How can I tell what is being worked on from the spread sheet? And how do I get modders resources to work? A tutorial or step by step instruction page would be helpful on this matter.

 

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Veltoss, in regards to the

Veltoss, in regards to the Skyrim objects that you use, copy and paste them into the "meshes\morrowind\" and "textures\morrowind\" folder and make new static objects in your plugin. Please prefix them with a zero so that its easier to identify that its a morrowind form. We will then need to to merge this with our Skywind.esm master at a later date. However it is always good to make these available to everybody as quickly as possible.

We can add Oaristys resource pack. We can add as many resources to Skywind during this development phases, as long as the don't seem to be too out of place with Morrowind environments. Once we are looking at a release version then those models that are not be used (or even maybe only used a couple of times), will be removed from Skywind. I'll work on adding that pack this week if you think its worthwhile.

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SquallyDaBeanz - The

SquallyDaBeanz - The spreadsheet I've got linked is actually wrong, its the original Morrowind cells, not the Skwind representation, but I will fix that tomorrow. What it will have is in each column (x) and row (y) the name of the person who is working on the cell.

As a quick temporary list here is a list of cells that are being worked on: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alvwmz6hbHGPdEt...

When you edit the world just save it as a plugin. Once everybody is happy with it, then can be merged in with the master. We will do this.

If you have a modders resources then suggest it to us, and we will add it into the Morrowind data folders and also add the forms.

For actual editing tutorials look at:

http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/3506-ioniss-landsc...

http://www.creationkit.com/Bethesda_Tutorial_Layout_Part_1

 

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Awesome. I'll have a look at

Awesome. I'll have a look at it. I already have some experience with landscaping so I'm looking forward to getting started. Thanks for the help. If anyone wants to see some of my work, check it out here.

http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/3682-the-elder-scr...

Veltoss
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Unfortunately the resource

Unfortunately the resource pack I linked has a lot of Skyrim objects used, such as Skyrim food, ingredients, plants, silverware, etc. I'm guessing none of this would fit in, especially for those who played Morrowind a lot in the past and want it as authentic as possible. However, that are also plenty of things like skeletons, rugs, scrolls, etc. So most of them aren't useful, but there are enough that could be used for it to be worth getting into Skywind. 

I will take a look at Skyrim objects over the next couple days and try to find as many as possible that we can use for Skywind, I'm sure there are plenty that would fit in, or at least would with a simple retexture.

PS: I did manage to find at least >one< resource on the Morrowind nexus that had clutter, alchemy jars. More for interior clutter than anything but when the time comes for interior work, it could be nice: http://morrowind.nexusmods.com/mods/495

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The Alchemy jar resource I

The Alchemy jar resource I don't think is good enough for Skywind. We have used some Skyrim models already for various bottles, so I think for Alchemy jars we could do better :)

As far as the resource packs goes it might not be until you have added them into the world that you get a feel if they are going to work or not. What we can do, is change over the model references retrospectively for people. Meaning if you don't want to add all the models to the Morrowind folders and just use what has already been setup from the resource mod, then that is fine. We have scripts that can change the references from one model to another, so no problems with losing work.

Does that make sense? We don't want to restrict creativity, and have people spend too much overhead in getting models into the game. We have other people who can do this. We'd prefer if you concentrated on actual landscape changes :)

SquallyDaBeanz nice work on the Salakariin mod, you got a real talent for it :)

Veltoss I played around with Saviik City about 4 months ago, so already know your work is awesome, cities will be much more authentic once you get onto them :)

I'll get both of into the chat that we use on the website for most of our project talk. [EDIT] You have been added, so feel free to join in the conversations.

 

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I started on a small section

I started on a small section of Balmora, the far side that has grass instead of brick paths. Since the conversion added grass to some textures it looked like a grassy mess, so I got the grass under control. It is still creeping in from the corners and there is some grass on the opposite side of the buildings, behind the buildings on the lower level of the town.

Going by the Balmora 'Labor Town' concept art I linked in a spoiler above, I added more hangings as well as some railings to the buildings. Other than that there is just a little bit more clutter, some urns, a few things on the rooftops, etc. I also added some plants that are native to the area around Balmora to make the grassless path look less flat.

I'm not finished yet, but I thought I'd share a picture of it to let people make any comments/suggestions/feedback on the general feel of the changes. I'd still like to add a lot more clutter, especially when more models are added, as well as adding 1-2 more textures to the grass path to make it less repetitive looking. 

As I usually do, I'm going to go through the town adding this same level of detail, and then start a second wave of detailing with even more clutter. At that time I'll probably start adding more models from Skyrim and resource packs as well.

Sorry I didn't get the screenshots from the same time of day/weather, it probably would have been easier to see the differences then. 

What do you guys think about the canal area of Balmora? In the lore Balmora is supposed to be a trade city as well due to the river going through, but as many have noticed the bridges leading up to the city and inside the city are all very low, so not much more than a low/small boat could get in. Should I add some small rowboats, docks, fishing poles, trade stuff (crates, barrels, etc), and so on to give the canal area that feeling? Or should I just do some fishing stuff and leave it at that? I'm just not sure whether to go with the lore or go with how the world actually looks, since both disagree >.>'

 

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Looks good so far.  I was

Looks good so far.  I was just curious, and this might just be an observation, but has anyone ever noticed how the big plaza area right as you enter into Balmora (the silt strider side) is very empty and boring?  I was wondering what liberties could be taken with this area to spice it up a bit.  Did you have any ideas, Veltoss?  The only thing I can think of is to maybe add a well in the middle, or maybe a nice tiny patch of park/grass with a tree or two there and some plants.  Or maybe a combination of the two.  Anyone else agree/disagree?

Edit: As far as the ship/boat thing, does the lore say that Balmora is the farthest up the river a ship could go?  If yes, then maybe you could add a few docks on the west side of the city where ships could unload their junk.  This would negate the need to redo the bridges.  If ships in theory (ie in the lore) are able to sail to destinations further upstream, then maybe we'd have to redo the bridges, although I don't like the idea because it would be weird to have super tall bridges going across the river to let ships pass under.

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Yes, I also noticed it's

Yes, I also noticed it's really big and empty. I thought it was wierd that the developers would make such a big empty space when they are so restricted on object count, since the best way to deal with that is to make spaces closer together.. I had about the same ideas you had, a tree with some rocks/plants or a well. I also thought about some kind of small market looking area, but it might be strange to some if there were never any NPCs working it, and that would require new vendors.

As far as the lore of the river, all I know is that there is supposed to be boats that can bring trade up. From what I see ingame and the CK, the river stops on one side of Balmora but maybe it's just some terrain problem after the conversion, I'll double check later. At the very least I can add a couple rowboats which are already ingame, they are plenty small enough to make it through the bridges.

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This is a lelek drawing, so

This is a lelek drawing, so doesn't represent Bethesda, but certainly shows the concept of trade. I like the hangings and railings, prefect. Might be worth trying to splash a little color into the city. Most of the dunmer places have that monochrome colouring, so having one city with a splash could be fun. Its possible that Vivec might have a similar concept of open trade stalls, but don't let that stop us from making Balmora something cool.

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